Susan Friedmann [00:00:30]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest comes all the way from the UK, Peter Thomson. Peter is regarded as the UK's leading strategist for business and personal growth. He started his business in 1972, building and selling 3 companies, which gave him the opportunity to retire at 42. Since then, he shared his success methods through online programs, books, and mentoring. With over 200 audio and video programs, he's Nightingale Conant's top UK author. He's received an honorary doctorate from the American InterContinental University in London and a lifetime achievement award from the Institute of Sales Management.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:35]:
Peter helps coaches and consultants amplify their message and create valuable informational products. Peter, what an absolute honor it is to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Peter Thomson [00:01:53]:
Susan, I'm delighted to be here. And I tell you what, I better be pretty darn good after that introduction, haven't I?
Susan Friedmann [00:02:00]:
I've put the bar very high for you, Peter, so don't disappoint me. I'm sure you won't.
Peter Thomson [00:02:06]:
I will certainly do my best.
Susan Friedmann [00:02:09]:
Peter, with the time that you've been in business, I think our listeners would love to know, how do you stay motivated and innovated after the decades of success you've had in your field?
Peter Thomson [00:02:23]:
Well, firstly, I think it was a slight caveat there. We'll have some wonderful successes, but I've had some fantastic failures as well. And, of course, we learn from both, don't we, as we go along our road. But the way that I stay motivated is this. I'm really fortunate, Susan, that I do who I am. And by that, I mean, what I love to do is to share my knowledge, my experience, my expertise, my take on it, which I think is really important, that last word. I think that's where the money is. We've talked more about that.
Peter Thomson [00:02:52]:
Years ago, my mom, when she's alive, used to say to me, I wish you wouldn't work so hard. And I used to say to mom, I never go to work. I go to play and people pay me. It just doesn't get any better than that. Even today in my life now, when I write, I record, I do Zoom calls, and I have subscription programs and memberships from private clients. I just love what I do is sharing what I know with people to help them be more successful, and I get rewarded for it both emotionally, physically, attempt fate in any way, but I just love it, Susan. I mean, how does it get better than this?
Susan Friedmann [00:03:32]:
Oh, you touched on something, Peter, that I really, you know, emphasize with my clients, and that is you've got to love what you do because otherwise, you're not going to do it. It's going to be a drag. And the more it's a drag, the less time you're going to do it and enjoy it. So, hey, have fun. Play. Make it fun. If you don't like to do one thing, try something else, but just have fun with it. And I think it's that passion and enthusiasm that really helps to sell as well.
Peter Thomson [00:04:08]:
Doesn't it just? There's an expression I wrote years ago when I was cogitating about why was it that people were never succeeding, it seemed, or so many people weren't succeeding to the level of success that their level of skill says they should. And I was linking to that. Why is it that so much training doesn't work long term? And I came up with this little expression, which was this, is people will never consistently do who they aren't. And I know it sounds a bit weird and it's meant to, but I felt that when somebody is acting in accord with their identity, they will do that all day long, regardless how hard or difficult it appears because it's who they are. And yet if we train somebody to do something, it doesn't gel, match with who they are. They'll do it for a while, but then they'll go back to who they are. Because the flip side of the expression is true. People will consistently do who they are.
Peter Thomson [00:05:06]:
The reason I love what I do is I'm doing who I am. This is me being, overused word, authentically me. This is me living my life the way I want to live it. I just think that's such an important point is that and you made the point yourself. If you don't enjoy it, my view is don't do it. Get someone else to do it. I interviewed years ago a very famous British business man at the time, sir John Harvey Jones. I don't know if you remember him at all.
Peter Thomson [00:05:33]:
I was introducing him. I was hosting a Jay Abraham, seminar in London. And sir John said this to me, he said, Peter, only ever do what only you can do. And I took that on board, and I think it was a wonderful piece of advice.
Susan Friedmann [00:05:48]:
It's an excellent piece of advice. I think we should have stickers and posters, and just it should be on everything. That is beautiful. You do you, and nobody else can do you. We can all be in the same space, and yet we all do ourselves, and we bring something
Peter Thomson [00:06:15]:
We can't be anybody else. And if you try to be somebody else, you're gonna
Susan Friedmann [00:06:16]:
We can't be anybody else. And if you try to be somebody else, you're gonna fail because it's not you. I remember early on when I was starting in the speaking business and very involved with the National Speakers Association and there was a woman I absolutely adored and I just thought, I just love everything that she does. I want to be her when I grow up. You know, that was my attitude. And I actually said to her, I said, I want to be you. And she said, No, you don't. You be you.
Susan Friedmann [00:06:48]:
She emphasized that message as well. You can't be me. You can't be me in the same way as I can't be you. Yes. I think that's really important. We see these people and we sort of idolize them and think, oh my goodness, they can do everything right. That's what I need to be doing. So we have to find that for ourselves.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:08]:
And it's something that you've been able to do, you know, with all these audio and video programs. How do you keep generating new ideas, new thoughts, new ways of doing things? What is your motivation?
Peter Thomson [00:07:25]:
Well, the motivation is because, again, I love doing what I do. But the motivation is that I'm a lifelong learner myself. I watch videos all the time. I attend seminars and webinars. Well, not seminars these days, but webinars all the time. I spend a lot of money on learning materials because I think you have to be a lifelong learner. World moves so quickly. And I love the expression that Zig Ziglar said, I'm sorry to have lost him indeed, but he said, it's what we learn today gives value to what we learned yesterday.
Peter Thomson [00:07:54]:
And so I like to learn new stuff so I can look at the other stuff I know and put the 2 together, and that's often how I create new things. The other thing I'm very aware of is what I see in the marketplace. So I like to listen and learn with 2 or 3 different heads on. 1, as the student going, oh, you know, that's interesting. Like, oh, I could use that. Secondly, as the teacher, by going, oh, if I was gonna teach that, I might do this in this way. Oh, when I know what I do, I'd add this to it that I already know. And I tell you what I'll do.
Peter Thomson [00:08:28]:
I'll make a template for it as well. I'll do a presentation for it, and I'll add some quotes to it. So now, oh, I might even interview somebody about it. So I'm just fascinated by the whole process of sharing knowledge and ideas with people because I think that people are always looking well, there's great expression from years ago. I heard Jay Abraham say it first. I don't think it's his original. He said, people are silently begging to be led. And I think that's true in all of us.
Peter Thomson [00:08:57]:
We're looking for someone who will give us the golden nuggets, the real way to do things that has been proven to work over time. I'm just fascinated in finding new ideas to share by maybe being in a coffee shop and seeing how somebody serves somebody and thinking, oh, that's got ramifications for anybody in business. Let me expand on that and tell the story of how it happened, then explain to somebody how they can use it too. So that's what keeps me going, Susan.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:25]:
Yes. That's beautiful. I love that. Looking at different ways to do things, they say there's nothing new under the sun, but it's just a different way of presenting it. And I love that idea of looking at something that's completely outside of your industry. I love reading magazines, you know, things that I would never look at normally. Golf Magazine. I'm not into golf.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:49]:
But I look at it with an eye of what is something that they're talking about in the golfing world that I could potentially relate to my nonfiction authors. I think it's wonderful going outside of the industry because you can get a bit claustrophobic in your own industry when everybody's sort of teaching the same thing, just maybe in different ways, and that's fabulous.
Peter Thomson [00:10:17]:
That's why I like to add my own expressions to the things that I do like that one I said earlier. People will never consistently do who they aren't. I spend a lot of time creating expressions because then I think it gives somebody a mental hook to hang their hat on. You know, another one of mine is I'm very keen on measuring things, and I came up with this expression was time and distance traveled compounds the effect of error. You know, I'm very keen on getting my clients to take action and measure immediately. Measure soon. Measure fast. Because then if you can correct it early, then you won't have this problem of the compounding effective error.
Peter Thomson [00:10:53]:
You'll have the compounding effect of success instead.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:57]:
Yeah. I mean, I've learned the hard way many times is sort of doing the same thing, expecting a different result, and that isn't the best formula.
Peter Thomson [00:11:07]:
Indeed not.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:09]:
Peter, with all the years that you've had in the business, I'm sure that there are some mistakes that you've seen entrepreneurs make and even yourself. I mean, like you said, you've had failures or they're just mistakes or something that didn't quite go the way you expected to. Hey. We all have them. What are some common ones that you feel would be helpful for our listeners?
Peter Thomson [00:11:36]:
Lovely. Okay. Well, the one I think being an author and, you know, written a lot of stuff because that's what I do, and, of course, lots of videos and things. I think when it comes to books, I see, unfortunately, I've made the mistake myself, is trying to get one book to do multiple jobs. Rather than saying, hang on a minute. If I'm going to use a book as a positioning tool to position me in my appropriate status in my marketplace, maybe to use it as the best business card that I ever had. I mean, whenever I go and see a new client, I'll take them a copy of 1 of my books and give it to them at the start of the meeting and then say in a very soft voice, would you like me to sign it for you? And I don't think I've ever come away without doing some form of business when I've done this. But I think it's just a wonderful thing to do.
Peter Thomson [00:12:23]:
It's the best positioning tool in the world is to have written a book. And I think the reason that works is that because the word authority contains the word author. And I think of it as author I t y, not authorities, author I t y. So unless you're an author, you don't have authority. And I'd like to think of it in that way and have fun with it. The mistake I see is that, yes, have that book. But if you're going to use a book for lead generation, then why not write a 60 to 80 page book? Rather than going for a best seller, go for a best reader. Something that people would pick up and they can read it inside an hour that enables you to share your knowledge, your experience, your expertise, your take on it, and position yourself in their eyes as being the person they might wanna have a conversation with.
Peter Thomson [00:13:10]:
I see this mistake of trying to get one book to do 2 or 3 things. The mistake for me is write some short books because they're perfect as lead magnets. In fact, for me, they're the best lead magnets you could ever ever have. The other thing I see with that lead magnet stuff is people send their books out willy nilly rather than getting people to respond to their marketing because that's a far more qualified lead. It's great for list building and lead generation. There is a way to send out books unsolicited, done in the right way, can work effectively, but most people don't do it that way. But far better to put out posts, adverts, articles on all the various social media or your own list and then bring people in because they want the book. And the way that I position those smaller books, and I've written a few of those, is the title because the title then becomes the marketing message.
Peter Thomson [00:14:09]:
And I think this would be really useful for people soon is I've got lots of reports on how to write titles for books that I've created. But the best one I know for a marketing book is this, the 3 p's, person, problem, promise. Make the title of the book or the prehead tell the person it's for them. Secondly, focus the title on the biggest problem they've got or the biggest potential they have in their life or their business as the case may be, and then promise a solution or help in some way. So if we can go person, problem, promise, and somebody goes, oh, that's me. I've got that problem. Yes, please. I'd like that.
Peter Thomson [00:14:55]:
They haven't just put their hand up small in the marketplace. They've raised their hands to the roof and said, that's for me. Where do I get it? And, therefore, the follow-up to that, that's how I get clients. I mean, that is just such a wonderful conversion process using your book as a lead magnet.
Susan Friedmann [00:15:12]:
That's beautiful. Yes. And now, I mean, ebooks are so easy to produce. You don't necessarily have to publish it through anybody, you can publish it yourself. And as you say, 60 pages, even less. Again, it's a lead magnet. It's something to show your authority. And I love that whole author to authority, which is in fact an expression that I use and one that, I do a coaching programme on that whole principle of author to authority.
Susan Friedmann [00:15:43]:
I love it. You're speaking my language, Peter. I knew you would.
Peter Thomson [00:15:47]:
You asked me the next thing. When we talk about ebooks, Dex, I think this is important. I love to put physical books in the post. I do use ebooks. Of course, I do because there's occasions when it's easy sending send somebody a PDF and etcetera. But as a marketing tool, I much prefer to send the book even without asking for the shipping and handling or post the packaging. And the reason I do that is because I ask a lot of people this question. I say to people, please tell me the last time you threw a physical book in the bin.
Peter Thomson [00:16:21]:
And most people go, oh, I never have. I say, that's right. When someone sends you a book, you don't throw it in the bin. When they send you a PDF, you put it on the front screen of your computer or your Mac, whatever it might be, determined with good intention to read this, and then you move it to a file called read next, and then you move that to somewhere else, and then it gets lost or deleted. However, physical books stay with you. I think I've only ever thrown 1 book in the bin in my life because I it really annoyed me. And if you think of putting a book in the post, let's think in dollars for a moment, you're probably talking 7 or $8 to get a book in somebody's hand. Well, if you sent a 100 books and you spent $750, would you get 1 client, 2 clients, 5 clients? I'd have thought most definitely and probably more.
Peter Thomson [00:17:11]:
But let's say it was 2 clients. Would 2 clients be worth the lead capture of, say, $750, $375 each? Wow. Absolutely. That's why I love sending physical books.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:24]:
That's a brilliant idea because we're sort of losing the idea of sending something through the mail. But you're so right. I've got a 1,000 or more books. There isn't one of them that it would break my heart even if I don't want it to trash it because I was like, well, if I don't want it, maybe somebody else will. And it is the hardest thing to give books away. People just don't want them anymore, which is really sad. Yes. I love that idea and I know that there's a company, you just sparked this, in my mind that do mini books.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:59]:
I produced some of those and those are simple just to pop in an envelope and send off and that wouldn't even cost you $7. Probably 2 or 3.
Peter Thomson [00:18:13]:
I always send them in a printed Jiffy bag. My latest book is called Pay It. Now that's not the small book. That's a bigger book. But when that goes out, it goes because it's a red cover, red and white cover. It goes in a red Jiffy bag. And on the red Jiffy bag, in white letters, there's a space for the address and the name. And underneath, it says, you're about to get paid because the book is called paid.
Peter Thomson [00:18:39]:
What a great okay. A bit of ambiguity in there, but somebody gets that, they smile. And by the time they're opening the book and they've taken it out, and I think that's just creating the atmosphere you want for someone to receive this wonderful gift that you've given them of a book with your knowledge, experience, expertise, and you're taking it? How does it get better than that? They're already loving you. Then they look at the back cover with your lovely photo up to date and your the boof, the proper word for it, or the blurb, and they read that, and they that tells them who you are. And then they look in the book, say, 60 to 80 pages. They start reading, and your first chapter is, as Gordon Herschel Lewis says, fire your big guns first. So the first chapter is wonderful, and people are going I mean, how could you have a better salesperson for you than a book? Just think it up.
Susan Friedmann [00:19:29]:
Yes. It is. It is a great salesperson. Let's talk about more informational products. I mean, you create these informational products. Talk to us about that and how an author can easily do that. We talked about a smaller book, a mini book, just a, you know, as you said, 60-page book. How about the informational product side of it? What else can it be? What else can you turn it into?
Peter Thomson [00:19:57]:
Well, I've got a list somewhere, and I think I've got 98 ways of using the same information that I've collected over the years. But if we look at the major ones, the first thing, obviously, can become a multimedia offering in the sense that it can be an online course. It could be video-based. It could be templates. It could be separate audio that someone could download and listen to in the car because, obviously, you can't be watching the video at the same time. I took my first book, which I wrote 31 years ago. I didn't know Zig Ziglar. How funny I've had an audio program with the same title.
Peter Thomson [00:20:32]:
It was called Selly Away to the Top. And that book probably went to a publisher, but it wasn't self-published. I probably made about 2 or £3,000 out of it. I took the same book, and I filmed it into 36 different modules. And it was mostly selling and business growth and bit of personal growth in there. It was a complete thing, and it was called the Accelerated Business Growth System. The 36 modules had a 20-minute video, a 20-minute audio, which was the audio ripped off the video, a workbook, templates, action plans, and everything you needed to be able to implement the ideas in your business. And it came in a big box like a small television, and that box sold for £3,000 each.
Peter Thomson [00:21:23]:
The book sold for £10. Out of the £10 book, I made it a couple of £1,000. We sold as a business 600 copies of the Accelerated Business Growth System, and 600 times 3,000 is £1,800,000. Now if that's not an incentive to take our knowledge, experience, expertise, and repurpose it, that makes it the best possible way for different clients to understand our ideas and implement them than I know the word is. So it can be an online program. It can be videos. It can be follow-up material to training. It could be a subscription program.
Peter Thomson [00:22:00]:
The same material could be used for a subscription program or a membership program, which is different. It could be a mentorship program that's 1 on 1 or 1 to few or 1 to many. I have a membership group that runs off the back end of my paid program. I used to, years ago, I had the what I believe was the first audio newsletter in the world because this is a long time ago, 1998 or something. And it was called the Achievers Edge. And the Achievers Edge was a 72 minute long, this is gonna make you smile, Susan, cassette. Right? It was a cassette, and it went out monthly to subscribers. And it was £10 a month, plus the p and p, shipping and handling.
Peter Thomson [00:22:41]:
And at the peak, we had 3,000 subscribers. Now that's 3,000 people paying me £10, $15 whatever it is a month, and I had that running for 13 years. I'm not being flashed with the numbers, but just, you know, that's £3,000,000. But it's repurposing our knowledge, experience, expertise, and take on it into different things. What about taking the same information and making short reports? 1 or 2 page reports that's used for lead generation. What about taking those and making the video on YouTube? What about taking the information these days into AI? You've clone your voice and make whatever you want. I mean, the possibilities are endless. You can make a card deck with it.
Peter Thomson [00:23:24]:
You could take the contents of a book, make a card deck. You could follow Paul at Ensign and make a tips booklet instead. I mean, just so many different ways.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:33]:
That's brilliant. Yes. And funnily enough, you and I should compare our list because I wrote, 125 point checklist of how you can repurpose your book. So you and I need to look at what have you got that I haven't got and vice versa, maybe we could combine them and have well over 200 ways.
Peter Thomson [00:23:56]:
Yeah. Well, I think there'll be some crossover for sure, but I will.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:59]:
Without any doubt. But, hey. But these simple ones, you're absolutely right. And I I often tell authors that you can charge far more for a workbook than you can for a paperback or a hardcover book because people perceive it. And this is the word, the perception is that it has a different and more value when it's a workbook versus another softcover book, another hardcover book on sales or whatever topic, leadership, motivation.
Peter Thomson [00:24:35]:
The word I've heard used sometimes for has the follow-up to a book. So if somebody writes a book, it sells for, let's say, $10, $15, that sort of level. And then they write the experiential guide to go with it, which sells for $30. You know?
Susan Friedmann [00:24:49]:
What would you put into an experiential guide? Help us with that.
Peter Thomson [00:24:53]:
The exact steps that you need to take in order to implement the ideas discussed in the book.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:58]:
What kind of format would you even suggest for something like that? Could that be a PDF? Could that be audio, video?
Peter Thomson [00:25:05]:
We could be any of those. Again, I would steer away from PDF. I would make that a physical book because you can charge for the PNP or chipping and handling. So you're not gonna lose out in the putting it in the post. It means you've got somebody's email and their physical address and their phone number, so you're building a much better lead list for yourself as well. And I would do it the sort of a 4 size. I mean, that's probably a UK size, but you know what I mean? That sort of large
Susan Friedmann [00:25:31]:
8a half by 11. That's the sort of equivalent to our 8a half by 11.
Peter Thomson [00:25:35]:
Exactly. That sort of level, and it could be soft back, and it's, you know, it's a usable book. It's an experiential guide. Do you remember the Celestine prophecy? Do you remember that?
Susan Friedmann [00:25:44]:
Oh, yes.
Peter Thomson [00:25:45]:
Yeah. Well, you know, they said it was in every handbag in the world, the self esteem prophecy. So many were sold. It was it was classic. I mean, it was a man's book as well, but, you know, a lot of women loved that book. It's a great book. And then they had, of course, the 9th, lesson or insight that came behind it. That was the follow-up.
Peter Thomson [00:26:01]:
And then the 3rd book in the series was The Self Esteem Prophecy, The Experiential Guide. Classic stuff. Classic marketing. Loved it. So many different ways of doing it.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:12]:
Fantastic. Well, that's a great segue, Peter, into our listeners finding out how they can find out more about you, your services, your books. Where do you want to take them?
Peter Thomson [00:26:25]:
Well, I think the easiest way is my latest book, as I mentioned, is called Paid. I'll tell you what the strapline is on it. It says, reveals the 10 secrets for being richly rewarded for the value you deliver and the cascading impact you make in our world. Because I am hyper about getting consultants, coaches, authors properly rewarded for the difference that we make in the world. We don't drop a pebble in the pond of life. We throw a big brick in there. And if we think about the difference that we make and that cascading impact that we have into people's lives and their family and their employees and their suppliers and the world economy as a whole, we should be rewarded properly for our value. So my book, the easiest way to go and look at what I do is the paid book dot com.
Peter Thomson [00:27:18]:
That's it. I have a 67-page book called How to Write a Book for Your Business in 10 Weeks or Even Less, which I actually wrote in 80 minutes. I wrote it by recording a webinar and then converting the transcript into a book. That's one of the many bonuses that comes with Payden.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:38]:
Beautiful. Well, you practice what you preach, which I'm not surprised.
Peter Thomson [00:27:45]:
Thank you very much.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:46]:
Peter, you've shared so much wisdom already. As you know, we always like our guests to leave our listeners with a golden nugget. What's yours?
Peter Thomson [00:27:57]:
I believe that every consultant, every coach, every business must have this thing. They must have a deluxe version of what it is they do. Because there will always be a small number of clients, 5, 10, maybe 20%, who want more of us and more of what we do, and they want it faster and smoother and more help, and they want it done for them or done with them. And that deluxe version may have as much profit in it for a lot less time and effort than the rest of the stuff we do. I've now been in business for 51 years and way back 51 years ago, when I was a private investigator, I still had a deluxe version of what I did, and I've been doing deluxing ever since. And it is one of the best pieces of business advice I could give to anyone. Definitely have a deluxe version of what you do.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:52]:
That's a brilliant idea. I love the idea of that. Deluxe, Peter. Yes. Deluxe, Susan. Deluxe, listeners. All of you can have a deluxe version of yourselves and what you offer. This is brilliant.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:07]:
Peter, thank you so, so much for taking the time to do this and sharing your years of wisdom and the fact that you ain't done yet; you keep going. So hats off to you. I'm so thrilled that we were able to do this. And listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And, in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. So until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
