Susan Friedmann [00:00:31]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Maya Gray. She's the CEO and powerhouse behind Daydream Design Firm who offer holistic brand development and management services for authors, podcasters, and public speakers who are coaches or consultants. With an illustrious career shaping Fortune 500 brands and accolades from Black Enterprise to ESPN, Maya now channels her expertise into creating dynamic, time saving systems that help coaches and consultants up their marketing game. Maia's all about practical strategies that save time, attract the right leads and stretch your marketing budget. Maya, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.

 

Maya Gray [00:01:47]:

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:01:49]:

You and I were talking, before we went on the air, Maya, about branding, and obviously that's your specialty. Let's break it down. What exactly is it? Let's break it down. What exactly is it? Can you give us the 101 version so that it's easy for people to really understand and not be frightened of what branding's all about?

 

Maya Gray [00:02:22]:

Yes. Whenever I'm communicating the definition of branding just because it often tends to have such complex connotations, I always start with the idea or the philosophy that branding is actually the perception of an experience. What that means is whenever someone decides that they want to purchase with you or they want to support what you are doing, they are really focused on the experience that they are having. That's what prompts them to make the decision to choose you or not to choose you. The experience doesn't just encompass the visual side. So we know that oftentimes a lot of people, when they hear branding, they automatically think logo or they automatically think design. However, branding is so much more than that. And to even simplify further, branding is 70% verbal, and it is 30% visual.

 

Maya Gray [00:03:31]:

I'll give an example. Let's say you're having a conversation with someone new. You are watching their movements and listening to the things that they are saying. Now if they're communicating with you in a way where you feel put off, you're going to walk away with that experience, and you're going to say, I probably don't want to interact with that person anymore. You're not going to look at their appearance necessarily and say, oh, they're an attractive person, you know, what have you. And then just solely base your interaction on their appearance, essentially. But if they have a positive conversation with you, you're more likely to want to follow-up or want to engage more or want to interact more. And so the concept works the same way with branding.

 

Maya Gray [00:04:20]:

It's really important to give attention to what you are saying and how you are saying it to the people that you are hoping to connect with.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:04:29]:

That's a great segue into understanding why it's so important for authors to have a brand, and a consistent brand, because I believe that's at the basis of branding, that the consistency of not that you look or sound one way in one environment and another way in another environment. Talk to us more about the importance of branding for authors since, obviously, our listenership are made up of primarily nonfiction authors.

 

Maya Gray [00:05:02]:

Consistency is definitely key. Consistency is what builds the trust. When you have a cohesive presence online and offline, then viewers or potential prospects, they start to view you as someone that they can relate to. Another supporting factor of that consistency and that cohesiveness is really going to be identifying not only your purpose but also your niche. Focusing in a little bit more on the purpose side of things. You really want to be able to solidify your core message because remember I mentioned about, you know, branding being 70% verbal, what you say and how you say it. It. You really want to be able to solidify that message and then connect that to momentum.

 

Maya Gray [00:05:57]:

What momentum are you creating? What traction are you gaining? What does the exposure look like for your book or for your brand? Because what you're looking to do ultimately is to create a movement. Starting to identify your purpose and then aligning that to who you serve specifically will really start to attract the types of supporters that you're looking to gain.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:06:25]:

That's a very interesting concept. It's the idea of creating a movement. And I'd love you to address that more because so many of the authors that I work with say, This is more than just a message. This is something that I want to get out to a larger group and I feel it's more of a movement. And I'm like, Okay. Now that's really interesting. So take that apart a little bit more and tell us more about that concept of creating a movement as it relates obviously to branding.

 

Maya Gray [00:07:00]:

It's very important to create a movement. Think about it like this. Think about JK Rawlings and everything that goes into the Harry Potter brand. She has actually been able to take her book series and diversify the brand into multiple different industries, thus generating multiple streams of incomes in every aspect that you see. So this brand didn't become successful because of the logo design. The brand became successful because of the story that she told and the movement that impacted so many people who still to this day support it and will continue to support it for years to come.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:07:49]:

And there are so many people who want to be JK Rowling's wannabes. That's that's an interesting example that you gave, even though I know that it's fiction. However, I think that whole concept too of even imagining what this could turn into given, you know, if it goes sort of viral, if people really capture it. And so it's your job, I would think, to help create that, your passion, your vision, too, for what you think this could turn into.

 

Maya Gray [00:08:29]:

Correct. Definitely aligning your purpose to your vision is going to be key to building that movement. People want to be able to support an impact at the end of the day. And so as you are developing your brand, your message is going to support the movement that you are looking to create or the impact that you are looking to influence.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:09:00]:

Yeah. That word influence, that's word with regard to, obviously, creating movement because you are influencing so many people with your message that, as I said, it goes viral. I mean, people just latch onto it because they love the idea, they love the concept, they see something exciting about it. Let's transition a little bit here, Maja, and talk about, based on your experience, do you feel that an author should be branding themselves versus branding the book?

 

Maya Gray [00:09:39]:

Oh, that is such a great question. It really depends on your vision and what you see long term. Now the other thing to consider is that as you continue to evolve your brand, and mind you, I'm using the term brand outside of, you know, your business or your book. But as you continue to evolve and the brand continues to grow, there may be certain shifts or changes that you see yourself stepping into as things change. But the idea is still that there is a base vision that is going to essentially structure the idea of whether you want to build your personal brand as an author or whether you really want to build the brand based on the book by itself. The other thing to call attention to is that a brand is really an entity all of its own. Instead of attaching the book to this concept of the brand, understand that the book is actually an extension of the brand because the brand holds power all of its own. An example to follow-up with that concept is gonna be, let's just go back to the Harry Potter example.

 

Maya Gray [00:11:02]:

We have Harry Potter books, but now we also have Harry Potter movies. We now also have, you know, Harry Potter merchandise we see everywhere through and through. And we also have now a Hogwarts game that was released and significantly yielded dividends. As you are crafting your vision and what you see long term. If you want to really build your personal brand because you want to be an influencer or you want to be a thought leader in your industry, then yes. Definitely focus on yourself being the brand and your book being an asset that supports your personal brand. But if you see that you want to have a structure similar to the growth that we've seen with Harry Potter and you want to potentially diversify into different industries by leveraging the brand of the book, then that would be the direction that you need to focus in.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:12:06]:

And I love that concept that the book is an extension of the brand. It isn't the be all and end all. It isn't the brand itself, but just the extension. And along with that, obviously, as you had said before, before, your purpose, your vision, that this is all one thing. It isn't disconnected. And your message is so key as a central component here, that message that you want to get out to the universe. Let's talk about mistakes, Maya. This whole concept, as you had mentioned earlier, that there are complex computations attached to it.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:12:51]:

I'm sure that there are some common mistakes that you have seen coaches, consultants, and particularly authors, make, what are a couple of the top ones that you see, some common ones that our listeners could avoid?

 

Maya Gray [00:13:08]:

The most common mistakes that I see, as I'm shifting my gears here, because there can be several, but the top ones I would say, trying to master all of the marketing channels at once can be very detrimental to the growth. Just because, again, we go back to the idea of being consistent. And so when your online presence doesn't match your offline presence or even your messaging, then a lot of times people can view that inconsistency as your brand is not trustworthy. So that is gonna be the first mistake that I see that's most common. The second mistake is not giving a lot of attention to the relationship building side. As you are building a brand and you are looking to retain loyal followers and supporters and people who will continue to make purchases of your other books because they just enjoy everything about what you are putting out, it is really important to continue to build that relationship. So very specifically, giving attention to your relationship strategy, your referral strategy, your review strategy. So, you know, receiving testimonials, putting that information out there, applying user generated, content or UGC to your social platforms.

 

Maya Gray [00:14:41]:

And then another key piece is going to be your retention strategy as well. But it all starts with building a relationship. And then lastly, I would say a common mistake would be trying to combine your personal brand with your book brand. Because, again, those are going to be 2 separate entities all on their own. Really getting clear on how you want to position yourself or your book in the industry.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:15:16]:

Based on that idea of that maybe confusing the 2 brands, are you seeing that there should be a brand for the book and a brand for the author? Or do you see that all as one where, as you'd said earlier, that the book is then the extension of the author's brand?

 

Maya Gray [00:15:43]:

It's gonna be very important to give attention to 1 or the other. As a thought leader, you could be using your book to position yourself as an industry professional. Right? But the idea is that you are building your personal brand, and you want people to connect with you personally as an author. Be it you want to receive opportunities for keynote speaking. Be it you want to receive you know, credibility as an instructor. Maybe there could be some options there for the ideas that you have for gaining traction as an author very specifically. And so then the book would just be an asset of that brand. If you want to build momentum around the brand of the book, then it's going to be very important to continue to reinforce the message that you are looking for people to support.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:51]:

Yeah. I would see that that would be key. And it keeps coming back that I see that almost like the hub of the wheel that, that messaging is so key. And when I work with authors, we look at putting together a roadmap, an author marketing roadmap, so that they can sell their books in bulk. And the starting point is that message, that messaging. I'm thrilled that you keep coming back to it because, yes, it is so critical as a central point here. You had mentioned earlier one of the mistakes was this whole idea of relationship building and keeping up that relationship building, you know, maintaining it, looking at how you can make referrals, etcetera. What are some of the key ways in which you can continue building and working on relationships? Because, yes, we're in a human to human environment now, more than, you know, I was told the other day, rather than, you know, the b to b, business to business, or b to c, business to consumer.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:18:05]:

We're just focused on that human to human now, and that whole idea of relationship building is key to that. Talk to us more about that, and some of the best ways in which to do that.

 

Maya Gray [00:18:19]:

One of the best ways to really reinforce your relationship strategy is going to be staying consistently connected to those who already support you. It is a lot easier to get someone to buy who has already purchased for you and fully supports you. You don't want to just let that relationship kinda dangle in the wind, or you don't want to just let too much time go before they, you know, hear from you again. So keeping up with, you know, email marketing campaigns, even personalizing the experience further by calling attention to their birthdays are really effective relationship strategies. Involving them if you have a podcast, involving them as guests on your podcast, and really just reinforcing the fact that you care about them supporting you. I would start there. Of course, there are, you know, other ways just to keep that relationship going, but I would definitely start with the email marketing aspect or even making sure that your website has a blog where you are giving out tips and practical things that can encourage your readers based on the movement that you are looking to create. Things that maybe that kinda circle around the calls that you are putting out there through the message of the book.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:19:48]:

Yes. And what comes to mind, as you said that, sort of keeping in touch with people, I've got one of my colleagues and dear friends, Leanne Webster, she talks about your email list is, you know, sometimes people only email you when they've got something they want to sell you. And so it's like they don't hear from you, it's ghosting until, Oh, let me see whether they'll buy this or they'll buy that. So, yeah, the importance of keeping in touch. Love the idea of the personalization. Your birthdays. Yeah, I love birthdays. Some people don't like birthdays.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:20:25]:

I love birthdays. Things like that are so key. That's wonderful. And I know in terms of building a brand too, networking is something that you advocate. Talk to us a little bit about that.

 

Maya Gray [00:20:39]:

Networking is so huge, especially from the relationship building aspect. I've actually have gotten a lot of opportunities just simply through networking. And putting yourself out there, a lot of times, it can feel very uncomfortable if you're just not used to, being in certain spaces, especially for introverts. I have several friends who are introverts that feel very uncomfortable with going out and socializing. But if you, you know, truly want to gain that exposure and make these connections to get some momentum behind the awareness of your book or your brand or you as an author. You have got to start getting out there and talking to people and introducing yourself and really picking their brains on what they find interesting as well. Maybe not just focusing on what you bring to the table, but also asking them about their day to day life and how it relates to the message that you are putting out there.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:21:48]:

Yeah. And I've heard this before. You know, people aren't interested, the fact that you just wrote a book. You know, just being at a networking event and saying, hey, I wrote a book or just published a book. And they're like, Okay, and so what? The idea of questioning them about their interests and what's important to them and how you might be able to help them. I mean, and it's funny because you and I met through a a networking event. And I was, like, oh, I'd love to have this woman on my podcast. The more you talk and I get to know you and your strengths, I'm thinking, Oh, I want to introduce her to some of my groups and how you can potentially guide them, direct them, and hopefully maybe get some business from them.

 

Maya Gray [00:22:35]:

I actually had the opportunity of working with a NBA player, so a professional basketball player. This opportunity came about because of a networking opportunity. This wasn't anything that I did online specifically. They had never even seen, you know, my website before. This was simply a connection that was made through a referral specifically, but the referral would have never happened had there not already been a relationship established to begin with.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:23:11]:

Yeah. It's really interesting how these things work, you know, serendipitously, that you meet someone and you have no clue until you sort of obviously start interacting with them who they know and who they might be able to introduce you to. That conversation and being involved and interested in them, I think, is key. That's a great segue into sharing how our listeners can find out more about you and your services.

 

Maya Gray [00:23:45]:

Yes. If you would like to contact me or reach out to me, please visit my website, Daydreamdesignfirm.com. I am on LinkedIn under Maya Gray, and my email address is info-at-daydreamdesignfirm.com.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:24:06]:

Perfect. And I know that you have a little something that you are willing to offer our listeners. What is that gift?

 

Maya Gray [00:24:15]:

Oh, yes. I would like to offer you our free "7 Questions_Brand Audit Workbook" This is a free ebook, and it will help you get a starting point of uncovering your vision and the direction that you wanna take your brand or book in.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:24:35]:

That's very generous. And I'll put all that information in the show notes, listeners. So if you're on the treadmill or you're in the garden sunning yourself and you haven't had a chance to write this down, then it'll all be in there for you. And, Maya, you know that we always end off with our guests leaving a golden nugget for our listeners. What's yours?

 

Maya Gray [00:25:02]:

The golden nugget that I would like to leave is the concept and the idea of the sky not being the limit. Beyond the sky, as we know from the literal form, there's an entire universe out there. I think there should be attention given to letting yourself as a leader, as an author, explore opportunities, to maximize your growth in your industry.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:25:34]:

And on such wise words, yes. There are. I mean, they say the sky's the limit, but you're right. There's so much out there, untapped resources. And your own creativity can help in that as well. So beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. And listeners, I'll put all Maia's information in the show notes.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:25:59]:

And by the way, if your book isn't selling the way you want it or expect it to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales, because you've invested a whole lot of time, money and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

Download Maya's 7 Questions_Brand Audit Workbook