Susan Friedmann                                                                           00:37

Welcome to book marketing mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters.

Every week, introduce you to a marketing master, who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.

Well, today, my special guest is actually me, And as I've done in the past, I've invited my dear friend and colleague, Jane Malucci, to interview me because I think it makes it much more interesting than just me talking, so she and I gonna have this wonderful conversation about marketing.

What a surprise?        

So Jane, thanks for doing this.

Oh, my pleasure, Susan.

It's always fun to talk to you, and I always get to learn something.

So this is a great thing to do.

Well, let's talk about the big m marketing, self published authors, It's really kind of a terrifying subject when you tell them that they have to market their book speaking to other authors.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                01:27

It brings up a lot of butterflies oh my gosh, I can't do that.

But it's something that they need to do as I understand.

It's not just a matter of putting your book into the local bookstore or dropping it into the Amazon jungle and figuring that it's gonna sell.

Marketing requires that people understand what you're offering and why they should read your book and it makes them want to need your book.

So how do you get across to these authors who are a little bit terrified that marketing is a really good thing to do.

 

Susan Friedmann

That's so true.

It can be daunting.

And I know that, like you, I mean, when I talk to authors, they're like, I don't know how.

I don't want to sell it.   

I don't know what I want somebody else to do the marketing for me.

Nope.

I think the best person to do this is you.

Because nobody else has the action for your subject matter the way you do.

So In the first instance, I think it's really a matter of a mindset and understanding that marketing isness Saria, and it's important for us to understand that it's just part of this publishing process and Without marketing readers are never going to know about your book, which in turn, obviously, is going to reflect in sales.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           02:46

It boils down to, hey, let's just embrace it.

You know you're gonna have to do it.

Let's just enjoy the process.

You know, when I talk about marketing in my 6 week selling books in bulk marketing mastery program.

You know, I emphasize that the focus is on using marketing strategies that you enjoy because I think if you're going to enjoy something, you're going to do it.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                03:09

Yeah.

That makes a lot of sense.

Just even talking about marketing, I think the best way that I have found a calm people down is to tell them that it's really getting their message out rather than just thinking that it's hardcore marketing.

So, what are some of the basic things that an author could do to start marketing their book?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           03:31

We want to make sure that it's something that you're going to do.

I'd love to touch on that and just expand that a little bit more.

And I had somebody on the phone yesterday, and we were talking about marketing.

And she was like, well, I want somebody to do it for me.

And I gave her the example of and this is for all you parents out there.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           03:53

If you've had a child, It's like giving birth to this baby and then giving it to somebody else to raise.

I don't think too many people do that or like to do that.

You might want to at some stage along the way, but maybe not quite in the beginning.

You know?

When they get to the terrible twos, it's time to say, okay, somebody else take care of this kid.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           04:04

I've had enough.

But seriously If you look at it, this is your baby.

You love this baby.

You want to feed and nurture it.

And that's really a lot of what the marketing is about.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           04:24

It's how can you feed and nurture it and just help see it grow.

I think so starting small is really most important, is that don't try and do everything.

Find something that you really enjoy doing.

For instance, I enjoy podcasting.

This is my love.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           05:03

I've been doing this as you know.

Weekly for almost 7 years now.

This is my way of marketing.

Now I've been interviewing guests for so long, Now my strategy is, hey, I want to be on more podcasts myself where people interview me just like you're doing now on other people's podcasts and so that I can be exposed to their audiences because that's Also, what you're looking to do is you were looking to get awareness from as many people as you can In your target market or your niche market, we

Jane Maulucci                                                                                05:06

There you go.

Yeah.

That's important.

Right.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           05:24

Oh, so much so.

Is just focusing on your niche that you know that you're talking to the right people because you could be on a lot of podcasts.

But if you're not talking to people who need what you have to offer, it's really not worth it.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                05:40

So where did you find these people that connect to your market?

How does an author do that?

How do they start identifying where those people are gonna be hiding so that they can get their message out, get their marketing out to them.

First

Susan Friedmann                                                                           05:58

and foremost, it's identifying who that target market is or that niche that you want to penetrate.

I interviewed somebody earlier today, and they were talking about a message that might be right for funeral directors.

I

Jane Maulucci                                                                                05:59

know it's

Susan Friedmann                                                                           06:21

not necessarily the greatest audience, but, hey, Who needs your message?

That's really what it's all about.

It's who needs your message.

And then once you know, And you know who needs your message and what your message is that you're taking out to the public is, let's look at where they do hang out.

Where are they on social media?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           06:54

You don't want to be going out on social media on Facebook or Instagram if your people are hanging out on LinkedIn.

Or vice versa hanging out on LinkedIn with there on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, YouTube, I mean, you've gotta know where these people hang out.

And a good way to find out, Jane, if you're not sure in especially in the beginning, is look at people who have written similar books to yours.

Then look at where are they hanging out?

Are they on LinkedIn?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           07:09

Are they on YouTube?

Where is their place that they enjoy being or they found is a good place to be?

Because if they're getting traction in those areas, hey, why can't you do the same?

Jane Maulucci                                                                                07:36

Oh, I love that.

That's so brilliant.

Because you're speaking to just that 1 audience, that 1 avatar, you've already figured out who you've written the book for so of course that's the same person or people that you want to market to.

So you're really kind of making it pretty easy, Susan, to just say, Find them.

Figure out where they're hiding and you may already know since you've done such a good job of identifying the Avatar, the reader for your book.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                07:52

This is great to be able to say, okay, they're gonna be over in this corner so let me walk over there and talk to them if you were imagining yourself in a coffee shop everybody separated, you're like, okay, that's my crew over there.

I'm going to go talk to them.

That's brilliant.

So

Susan Friedmann                                                                           07:57

another thing in another interview I did today.

Today's been a busy day with interviews.

Oh,

Jane Maulucci                                                                                07:57

yes.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           08:52

Is leveraging book reviews and testimonials And this is something that, again, you're looking at people who are maybe influencers in your field.

Could you ask them to write a testimonial for you, or if you're looking for a review of your book Do you have people who you can look to as beta readers who again are influencers in the marketplace?

Getting testimonials for your book.

I mean, these are essentials and doing it several months be for the book actually comes out.

The lady I was speaking to Carol Lamta, she was talking about the review sites, if you request a review and these are not paid for reviews.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           09:02

Mhmm.

If you request a review, You've gotta be asking maybe 4, 6 months or more out before your book is available.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                09:03

Oh my goodness.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           09:43

They've got a backlog.

And you can imagine, I mean, people are asking all the time because getting written up by a reviewer, the Kirkus reviews, or the book publishing, you're going to have that as part of your marketing strategy and reach out to them in plenty of time.

Unfortunately, 1 of the things, Jane, And you and I know this is that authors get so tied up in getting the book out and then It's an afterthought, oh, well, I'm gonna have to market the book.

How do I go about it?

There's a lot of time loss.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           10:13

Even if you let's say you want to use podcast guest podcasting, not necessarily having your own podcast, but just as a guest, They might interview you, and then it might be weeks or months before your interview actually comes out.

I did an interview with a gentleman whose book is coming out now.

I did that interview.

I'm going to say several months ago.

Maybe 4 or 5 months ago.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           10:25

We did that interview because he knew his book was coming out.

He had a date And then I'm now going to release that interview in time for the book publication.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                10:26

Support his

Susan Friedmann                                                                           10:28

overall marketing.

Absolutely.

So that's

Jane Maulucci                                                                                10:50

great.

He's got that already set aside in the can, and you're doing him the favor of having it come out when his book is coming out So that's creating quite a buzz for him.

And it really takes a lot of planning and strategy to set up your marketing plan before the book is even finished editing, really.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           11:12

Yeah.

I mean, you may even still be writing the book.

Never too early to start marketing.

And even if it's just talking about the book or in fact, I often say, if you've got the cover of the book, have that made into a postcard?

And hand those out to everybody.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           11:47

You can put it on a website, you know, just have a landing page with the book and you could get pre orders The book doesn't have to be done.

You put pre orders and you say, you know, summer of 20 23, fall of 20 23, the book will be out.

People know as long as you tell them.

And if the incentive is there, you know, maybe you're offering them a good price, or you're going to give them something else when they do order the book, you know, some kind of extra maybe could be a chapter from the book.

It could be a lead magnet.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           11:55

It could be a checklist.

It could be extra tips.

It could be anything that would be attractive to your target audience.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                12:37

You're telling us that really we should think of this the way they do the movies.

Because you go into the movie theater and they're always promoting a movie that might be out in a year even.

And you know it's not edited yet.

They're still working on it and yet you're getting excited because this is coming along.

So if you think of your book in those terms that you wanna get that excitement generated before it's in hand so that people are excited about it coming and like you say, getting input into it from other people through the reviews and the testimonials, that really generates a lot of energy and a lot of forward motion for the sales of the book.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                12:41

Absolutely.

And creating buzz about your book is

Susan Friedmann                                                                           13:05

a marketing strategy as well.

So Having other people talk about it or as I say, I a new 1 author who literally he was marketing his book.

2 years before the book actually came out.

Had that front cover done, and he had postcards made, He was just giving these out to people.

He was talking about his book.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           13:19

He knew what was going to be in the book.

And in fact, he was already teaching the material that was going to be in the book.

And he would say, yes.

This material is going to be in this book.

And so he was just preempting this whole thing.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           13:30

And just as you said with the movies, this is exactly.

It's a teaser.

It's like, you're gonna want this.

Why not order it right now?

Reserve your butt now.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           13:31

Exactly.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                13:44

That's great.

That's so cool.

What a great idea.

I love the courage.

The guts of the guide who said, okay, I'm gonna start marketing this book and probably hadn't a word written yet.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                13:58

I think that's phenomenal, but he knew what concept was.

He knew who his audience was.

He had his cover done, so he was ready to go forward with it, which is stupendous.

Yeah.

And for those of us who dawdle and wait until, okay, we're on our final edit.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                14:05

We're gonna start marketing now.

It's like, okay, but you're missing a little element here.

Get caught up.

Get moving.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           14:16

Exactly.

As I say, there's no time like yesterday to start marketing the book.

I mean, don't wait.

There's no perfect time to do it.

Just do it.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           14:50

People need to see at least the cover of the book so that they see that this is something real that you're talking about.

So investing in a nice cover What's the expression?

Don't judge a book by its cover, but in fact, it there is a judgment People are attracted by covers.

It's the packaging, and this is something really important, Jane.

You absolutely have to love your cover a hundred and 10, a hundred and 20 percent.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           15:09

If you're not in love with that cover, you're not going to be able to sell the book.

It's just going to affect sales maybe at a subconscious level.

So many people I've seen who but they're almost embarrassed to tell me they have a book.

And I said, well, why aren't you selling it?

Oh, I don't like the cover.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           15:20

Well, redo the cover.

I mean, salad.

It's a shame.

It puts so much time, energy, money, into this and then you're embarrassed to sell it.

I just

Jane Maulucci                                                                                15:35

think this is fantastic to think about getting that energy going, the marketing of the book getting your message out there, and I'm also thinking that through this marketing, you're generating excitement about the author as well as

Susan Friedmann                                                                           15:48

the book, is that correct?

People don't buy books.

People buy what books do for them.

So What's the book going to do for them?

It's going to help them overcome some challenge.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           16:00

It's gonna help them in some way or other.

That's going to come out through the author.

I mean, you are the face of the book.

Don't hide behind the book.

Come in front of the book.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           16:10

Be proud of this book.

This is your baby.

You wanna show it off, but it's not about the book.

When people say, well, I wrote a book.

Okay.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           16:26

And what's the book about?

Why should I be interested in the book just because You published a book does not mean automatically that I'm going to be interested and say, oh, yeah.

Hey.

I'll buy a copy.

I don't know what I'm buying.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           16:45

I don't know what it's going to do for me.

And even if it's the right book for me, I don't know.

Your book message has to be so clear as well as your own message about who you are and what you do and who you serve and how you serve them.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                17:05

So this is very intense working on The message that's in the book, the message that you want to deliver, putting that all together so that you are presenting a full package to entice people to get deeper into your message through the book, but also to look at whatever else it

Susan Friedmann                                                                           17:57

is that you offer to the people that you serve.

Yeah.

I mean, your book, more often than not, especially in the nonfiction arena, is solving a problem of some kind, giving people a solution to something they've been concerned about.

Whether it's you've been through a really bad divorce and you're giving some helpful hints or guidelines as to what you've found that works.

If you've been abused, if there's addiction, even sales strategies, marketing strategies, leadership strategies, whatever it is, You want to be clear about your message, what the book is doing, and how it will help people, and how you can help people.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           18:32

Because chances are you're not gonna get rich on the book, just selling the book.

If you're doing speaking, training, coaching, That's what's going to help bring in the money that you would like to have as a result of the book, just writing a book in and of itself.

Unless you're a celebrity, chances are very slim, where you're gonna have to do a love a lot of marketing.

In just the right way, be a super duper marketer and an Uber marketer if you want to do that.

But even then, it's a lot of hard work.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           18:40

Hey.

I'm for the easy life, so I don't know about you, Jane, but I think you and I are on the same page with that.

Absolutely.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                18:54

I think 1 of the things that everybody expects is that once they put their book, for instance, on Amazon, that it's magically going to start selling.

And that's so not true.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           18:57

Oh my goodness.

That's a myth.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                19:10

And I'd like you to talk a little bit about that because there is a confusion of the position and the marketing and how just because you've put it out to the world does not mean that everybody can find it.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           19:39

Well, yes and to understand what Amazon is, I mean, Amazon isn't there to sell your book.

Amazon is offering you a place to place your book.

It's like putting your book in a shop window at Bloomingdale's or Macy's or 1 of the department stores.

It's in the window.

Now, yes, somebody might find it if they're looking for a certain subject.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           20:17

However, you've still got to bring people to that shop window if you want them to buy.

Yes, there's an expectation that your book was on Amazon.

But put it on Amazon, but don't rely on anything from there.

You need to be doing your marketing to your niche market, your target market because that's where the sales are going to come.

That's where you can be a big fish in a small pond, not waiting for someone to miraculously find you discover you on Amazon because the chances are so slim.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           20:35

I don't even know if there's a number.

That goes, you know, into the 0 0 zeros that's going to happen.

Yeah.

Now you do marketing And, of course, you can buy ads if that's the way you want to go.

But again, I wouldn't just rely on it.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           20:53

Marketing is a very inexact science.

I find that you've got to do a lot of different things in order for them to be in effect.

You know, if you're doing content marketing, you're putting art calls.

You're doing a blog.

You're doing a newsletter.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           21:07

You're getting interviewed on podcasts.

Your local media don't forget your local media folks.

Right.

Oh, you were gold dust in your local arena.

I'd said it before on the show.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           21:34

That I'm in a small town and anything I put out, the editor will print verbatim.

Right?

He might change the headline, and that's about it.

And I know it's much harder in larger areas But you can still get out there, still let people know about the book, and maybe get on a talk show, a local talk show.

These people are hungry for information.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           21:46

Don't wait for the Today show or any of the other big shows out there rather just concentrate on the smaller arena and then grow from there.

That's

Jane Maulucci                                                                                21:58

right.

Plant some seeds and watch them grow.

Mhmm.

Yeah.

Well, Susan, I can attest to the wonders that I have learned through your book marketing mentorship course, which is just phenomenal.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                22:17

And then also through this podcast, the speakers and the guests that you have on here have such a treasure trove of information I think it's important that you remind people how to get in touch with you so let's start there.

Okay.

That's a good start.

Thank you.

I've got my brainstorm with

Susan Friedmann                                                                           23:06

Susan, my 20 minute book marketing session where we literally will just brainstorm some ideas that you could potentially use to market your book or to even just find your target audience if you're not sure what that is.

And then too, Jane, as you mentioned, my 6 week selling books in bulk, the book marketing, mastery program, which we are looking at some dates upcoming, which Again, if you're interested in that, let me know susan at aviva pups dot com, and we can put you on the wait list for that.

When we finally come up with the dates that we want to do this, we've just finished 1 and we're looking to have another 1.

And

Jane Maulucci                                                                                23:27

I can attest it is an intense course but you're going to walk away with a great land, and oh my gosh, so much information.

Now, Susan, I wanna give you 1 more plug.

You always end with a golden nugget.

I'm sure that you have a whole pocket full of nuggets for us, but please just choose 1.

In bookmarketing, what's your golden nugget?

Jane Maulucci                                                                                23:27

I

Susan Friedmann                                                                           23:55

wanna go back to the concept of marketing the book and realizing the necessity of marketing and just understanding that it is just part of the publishing process, and you're the person to do it.

You're the best person to do it.

Just start to fall in love with the process.

Learn some techniques.

I'm happy to walk you through.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           24:13

Some that might be right for you.

There are some that are right, some that may not you may not want to do, not everybody wants to speak.

Not everybody wants to be on podcasts, but there are other strategy that you can use.

Yeah.

Just fall in love with the process.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           24:16

That's what I'd really like to leave people with.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                24:37

Be fearless and fall in love.

I love that.

Thank you for this today.

This has been outstanding, and it's wonderful the confidence that you give authors to go out there and represent their books and get their message out and solve the problems that people have with their books.

So thank you so much for doing this.

Jane Maulucci                                                                                24:40

Yeah.

My pleasure.

And I really hope

Susan Friedmann                                                                           24:40

listeners that this interview sparked some ideas that you can use to sell more books.

So until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

Click here to schedule your 20-minute brainstorming session with Susan