Susan Friedmann 00:00:00

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.

Today, my special guest is Kelly Swanson, an award-winning storyteller comedian, motivational speaker, and cast member of the fashion hero television show now airing on Amazon Prime. She's the author of Who Hijacked My Fairy Tale, the Gutsy Girls, Pocket Guide to Public Speaking, and many more titles. She's been a featured entertainer for Holland America Cruise Lines, keynote speaker for the International Toastmasters Convention, and has keynoted major conferences and corporate events from coast to coast.
She's just launched her one-woman show, Who Hijacked My Fairy Tale, and is being booked all over the country. 

A National Speakers Association colleague and someone I've admired for many years. Kelly, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you back to the show again. 
And thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.

Kelly Swanson 00:01:10

Susan, it's my pleasure. And if all my interviewees, interview or whichever one you are, had a voice like yours, I would absolutely love it. I wish I could bottle it. Hello.

Susan Friedmann 00:01:24

I love it. So, Kelly, during our last interview, we talked at length about using stories to persuade and change minds. And the reason I invited you back is because I know there was an important project that we wanted to talk about with our listeners that we couldn't fit in. So we know that it's something that could help them improve relationships with their target audience, something you call the Ever After Club. So let's start with finding out what exactly is the ever-after club?

Kelly Swanson 00:02:01

Well, I sort of stumbled on the idea, actually. Let me start with what it is. Well, you're familiar with a book club, right?

Susan Friedmann 00:02:10

Correct.

Kelly Swanson 00:02:11

It is simply a book club, with the theme being to find joy and to find our happy ever after. The book we use is my book, and we meet periodically online and we work through the prompts in my book and have discussions around them, just like a book club would be. I can go more into detail. If you want to know more about how I've set it up or talk more about the back story, it's up to you.

Susan Friedmann 00:02:42

Who exactly would be in this group? Who do you invite to join this group?

Kelly Swanson 00:02:46

This is for people who want to work on their mindset, people who are stressed, and people who understand the power of the inner script and changing it. People who want that camaraderie and motivation. And in truth, Susan, people who want to be around me. They're part of my following already. It's something I'm offering to people who have been in my audience, who have already been on my social media channels, and who love the idea of hanging out with Kelly Swanson. And they know I'm motivating and inspiring and it's an opportunity to do just that. It is also something we package and sell as part of my programs to my audiences. Did you like this message? Did you like what you just heard? Well, your attendees have received a complimentary invitation to be part of the Happy Ever After Club and hang out with Kelly online and work through rewriting your inner script. So we're leveraging it in many ways.

Susan Friedmann 00:03:47

And how often would this group meet?

Kelly Swanson 00:03:50

I have not determined yet. What it is not is consistent. My schedule does not allow for we're going to meet every Thursday at four or we're going to meet once a month. I don't have that kind of schedule. And so I set it up to be handled like spontaneous meetups. And if you can come, great. If you can't, no worries. If you can, come to the next one. They don't build on each other. I know this sounds a little bit strange, but I am not creating a community. Whereas most people, if you had the time and the energy and the desire, it would be much more fun to create a community where everybody comes together and we develop friendships with each other. That is actually, in my case, not what I am doing, because many of the people who follow me, they're extremely busy and they may not be able to commit to every Thursday or once a month. And so I've created it to be more, hey, here are the meetups. Come when you can. Maybe you just come once, maybe you come every time, and friendships can be formed within it. But that's how I did it. I think most people that hear this idea will choose the opposite. They'll choose to use it as a consistent community builder, and one particular book.

Susan Friedmann 00:05:06

Will be the center of that community. Like a book club where you have different people's books, but here you're discussing your book in more detail. So there's an element of obviously learning as part of this group meeting, is that correct?

Kelly Swanson 00:05:25

Yes. And that's important to note that the book I wrote is called the Affirmation Journal for Positive Thinking. I did not do this for any of my other books. I did it for this one because when I was writing this journal is broken up into bite-size pieces to where you just take one of the prompts and you follow it through and it has a series of steps that are repetitive in each one. And when I was writing the book, Susan, I was thinking to myself, wow, I should be doing these things that I'm writing. If I did this, my mindset would change dramatically. And I remember laughing to myself and saying, you're not going to do this. I said, Well, I would do it if I had more accountability if other people did it with me. And I thought, what if I created this so that others could do it with me? And we do it together. And I'm not the teacher in the room anymore, even though I wrote the book. And it's not set up as a class, but we go through it. We just handle one of the bite-size pieces, we talk about it, we do it together, we share our struggles, and then we move on. And that's where I thought, oh, wouldn't that be fun? And call it the Happy Ever After Club. That's kind of how I stumbled into that.

Susan Friedmann 00:06:34

I love the idea, I really do, because I know that on the podcast we've talked about going out to book clubs and using and referring and recommending your book to other people's book club, but creating your own book club with your book as being the center stage on that. I love that idea because, yes, your book is full of learnings, and your target audience are wanting to know more about these different learnings, and here you are, the author who can guide them. But as you say, we don't always take our own medicine. It's good to have that accountability, right?

Kelly Swanson 00:07:21

And having an accountability partner and accountability group.

Susan Friedmann 00:07:25

Let's say that we haven't written a journal-type book, which yours is, and we talked about this prior to the interview. What if we had just a regular nonfiction book, let's say on sales training, which might be a really good subject, but yeah, how might we think about that in these terms?

Kelly Swanson 00:07:49

Well, I think the first thing to think about is the fact that the reason you thought it was an interesting idea what I was doing, and other peers in my industry have said, wow, this is a really good idea. And I think the reason it's a good idea to get on Zoom with other people, talking about what we know is not a new idea, but the reason it was a good idea is that it's framed as a book club. It's framed in a marketing way that's different. And because we're calling it a book club, we understand the more relaxed. We know when we go to book club with our friends that we're just going to talk about it loosely in conversation, maybe have a glass of wine. It's going to be more relaxed. We know we're not going to a class. We know we're not going to a workshop. So it really is a matter of positioning. That made it an interesting idea. So when you're going to a different kind of book let me take my own book. Let's say my story formula book, okay? And I'm thinking through this cold. I haven't thought about it, but I wrote a different type of book. It's a storytelling book, and it teaches them how to connect and engage to the power of strategic storytelling. So if I were to say, wow, we could work through this book together. 

Now, as I say that, I'm like, wow, okay, that's interesting. I don't know that anybody is doing something like that, let's work through the book together. How would I set it up? And so I would think, well, in this case, it's a different objective. In that case, people are working on their stories. We're kind of going it piece by piece, almost like we're taking a course together, but we're working through it one block at a time. I would say, Susan, that the idea would work with a nonfiction book. However, would you call it a book club? Because now with there being so much meat and the fact that people may be working through this book to achieve something, I don't know. That a casual discussion. Well, now I'm contradicting myself because we worked through it in the journal. The fact that I called it a book club, to me, sets up an expectation that I think you need to think about. If you wrote a book about sales or in my case, stories, would the term book club still apply? And if so, you would want it to feel like a book club, not a class. Am I making sense?

Susan Friedmann 00:10:06

Yes. Because what's going through my mind at the same time is doing a live training where you're taking a subject matter and discussing it, but there it takes on a whole different, I don't know, vibe. I think we're here. We're getting up close and personal with the author. We're really understanding more from the author's standpoint, what lessons can be learned, and how we can learn them. There's a slight twist to make it a little different. Yes.

Kelly Swanson 00:10:40

Yeah, I want to tag on that a little bit, because what was different about it was the fact that it's called a book club. It has a different feel. It is different to work through the book because now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know how many of my peers would allow you to work through the book together, except that a lot of us with an area of expertise are already doing a lot around training and video. And that's what I would want to keep us from slipping into and keeping it into something that sounds unique and different. It's really repurposing and repackaging our content in a different way when we've been doing it, many of us a bunch of different ways before.

But let's say I was going to do it with the story formula. I still like the idea of a relaxed conversation about this. You could still know that I'm thinking about it, we could say it's a book club where we're going to talk about these concepts in a relaxed way like a book club is more around discussion questions. Hey, what do you think the character meant by that? When you read a fiction book that's recommended for book clubs at the end of the chapter or at the end of the book, it has discussion questions. And so if we're going to follow the theme of a book club and kind of embrace that catchy, newish, different marketing way of bringing ourselves to our audiences, then we could still run it with grab a cup of coffee.

Here are the discussion questions, as opposed to, we're going to work through every single thing in this book, but more of an elevated conversation with coffee around these concepts where the author shows up. And instead of working you through the book, like I'm doing with the journal, your book club would just have a series of questions. And maybe each focus was a different chapter of your book. Am I making sense here? We're not training, we're not teaching. We're asking discussion questions and letting the people contribute, which might be what makes book clubs what they are, is when you go to a book club, it is an equal discussion where everybody gets to have a say about what they read that week and anybody listening. We joke and say, it's a book club, but Mine is the only book.

Each time you meet up, you're not discussing the whole book like a book club might, but you could even be discussing. In this book club, we're going to focus on chapter one or this chapter. In this book club, we're going to focus on this one. And then you're gearing your discussion questions around a particular chapter. And then that way you can keep meeting until you've worked your way through the book. And this could be evergreen, Susan. This could be something you always have going. People can pop in. There doesn't have to be a beginning and an end unless you want one. It can be My Happy Ever After Club is going to be an ongoing thing. It always exists. And when I feel like setting one up, whoever's in the pipeline can attend. That's how I'm going to run mine. You got a lot of creative options in this.

Susan Friedmann 00:13:38

Yeah. I mean, there are no rules and regulations, so you can make up your own as you go.

Kelly Swanson 00:13:43

Right.

Susan Friedmann 00:13:44

One of the main components, or if not the main component other than the book, are the actual discussion questions. You would formulate those and would people have them beforehand? Or would you just have one question per session that you would start with, how do you think it works best?

Kelly Swanson 00:14:03

Well, the way I chose to do it was based on my schedule, my bandwidth, my energy, and how much time I had. I don't like a lot of extra steps and a lot of work. Now, if this were my main project and it was the main source that I was bringing people in and wanted to really invest a lot, I do my podcast as, hey, I did one and now I'm sharing it. Whereas somebody like you, Susan, you're putting a lot more effort into this podcast project. It carries more weight and you spend more time on it. Same thing with this book club. I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. I don't want to have to be reaching out to everybody a bunch. I want it to be low-key, hey, here's a meet-up, come to it now from my journal. You don't know what we're going to talk about. You can trust me because I've told you that it's not going to be a repeat topic, but I'm going to go in here and I'm going to jump into something and I'm going to go, okay, here's the topic for today. And you come in with that blind trust. This is going to be what we were talking about. But I could have gone at it. And I'm doing that again, not because I'm lazy, but because I've got so many things going on. 

This is just one tiny piece and a lot of moving parts in my business, I can't give myself a lot more work. So it's, hey, show up here, and we're going to jump in. You never know what the topic will be, but it'll take you further. Now somebody else may want to go, no, I'm going to give them a topic in advance. Oh no, I'm going to have them go read the chapter. Oh, no, I don't even make them buy the book. Susan, I always say you don't have to buy the book because I'm going to read you these prompts inside of the book club. So then I feel really good that I'm not making them buy the book through somebody else, it's not the end of the world to say, hey, to be part of the book club, you need to go on Amazon and get the book or purchase the book for me, I don't think that's unfair to ask. So to answer your question, it's really up to you and what you want to build. 

Now if this is wildly successful or filled or a lot of people are wanting to come, then this is going to change and morph as I go and I've created mine to where it's so easy and simple that nobody even knows when the next one is going to be. So I could say, I don't have time to have one, I'm not going to have one three months from now. And I haven't promised anybody anything. The only thing I've promised and I've already run into this, is when they get on the call. They made friends and they wanted to follow those friends and be in that same next group. Well, for one person that was great, but for two other people, there's no way they can commit. They didn't sign up to have that kind of commitment. So I think the person that wanted that was let down and felt disappointed that, oh, I was hoping this would be a group I could become friends with and move forward with, but it's not what I created. So I think it's important for us to understand as the facilitator and the creator of this from the beginning, what it is we want to build and what the boundaries are, or more importantly, what we don't want it to be. What we don't want it to become is important. 
And as I said, it could turn out to be so wildly popular that I start changing the rules pretty quickly because it's turned out to be something worth pursuing.

Susan Friedmann 00:17:13

Now, do you see charging for this?

Kelly Swanson 00:17:17

I would have no problem charging for this. I have chosen not to for this reason. I'd rather use it as a lead generator to other things I have. I am also using it as part of my Story Impact Academy. It's a perk. So if you join my academy, then being in that club is included. And I know you're saying, well, you just told me you're not charging for it. I know it's a little bit tricky. I also can charge at any point if I want to. If I want to say, hey, from now on, there's a cost involved. We ran it special introductory at no charge, and now there's a cost involved. I also want it to be able to put in my packages to my clients, where, as part of this keynote, 20 of your members are going to be invited to this. I think it's important to establish a value to it, which I probably haven't done and maybe should do better. Valued at or this normally costs $47 or whatever that may be, a month. And then at least, if you're including it, giving it away, you've put a number on it. And then if you do want to charge or whatever may come of that, you've sort of determined its retail value. Am I making sense?

Susan Friedmann 00:18:33

Yes, absolutely. Because I love the idea of, as you say, giving it a value, because people value things that have a value. If it's just for free, for the sake of it being for free, then they don't value it in the same way. And I think the fact that you add it as an addition gives it more to your Story Impact Academy that I'm getting more bang for my buck. Basically, I've got another opportunity where I can interact with you. And something you said earlier that I really like is the idea of equal discussion. It's like, it's not you running this or me running it. It's all of us running this. It's a discussion. It's something where we can all participate and add our two cent worth or ask questions. So, yes, I really like that idea.

Kelly Swanson 00:19:33

And I want to say something about that as well. I like the idea too, because it takes the burden off you as the author to teach and to prepare a program. And again, that's why what you call it and how you position it is so important. And I think that's why when people hear a book club, it wouldn't make sense if you said, join my Happy Ever After book club. And I'm going to teach you three principles and you're never going to say anything. Now, maybe nobody would ever complain, but I would then challenge and say, well, that's not really a book club, is it based on what society or the norm or people in this country or my neighbors and friends tend to define as a book club? I think if somebody has a book club on a TV show, we all pretty much know what that is. And that's what I was emulating, and so I think it's important. And again, too, if you're going to call in a book club, stay in there. But it does have benefits because it's just so relaxing. I didn't have to prepare for it. I just show up and we talk. All I had to do was pick which one we're going to talk about today, and I'm doing it as well. Here's another thing, Susan, that shifted for me. I could be vulnerable. I could get help from others in the group. I was one of them. And that was an interesting thing. I had to realize, am I willing to be this vulnerable, too? Because this is about mindset and things you're dealing with, because I'm not the healer in the room, I'm also participating. So that was a different kind of relationship I was having with my audience. And that's normally not the case when you're doing a webinar or a keynote or an author reading or they may ask you questions, but you're still the one with the microphone.

Susan Friedmann 00:21:14

One of the things that I really like is I learn so much from my clients, from anybody who takes any kind of training that I do, because there's always the opportunity to add something. And I'm like, oh, wow, I didn't know that. And it's like, hey, great, this is extra wisdom that I'm getting from another source. So I always think that that's a bonus. When you have the opportunity to interact with clients and prospects.

Kelly Swanson 00:21:48

It also has an added benefit to you when your people feel heard and when they get to share, when they get to speak, they feel respected and acknowledged. And I always tell speakers, or even people running meetings, when you give people a chance to be heard, they're going to attach a higher value to that experience you just gave. So you giving people in this book club a chance to talk, they will feel more validated, and then they will go back and say, oh, she was so wonderful. They felt that way because they got a chance to be highlighted and just speaking to be heard. And I think that's something important that has an added value for us. And I thought of something I was going to say earlier that I didn't, so sorry if I get a little bit off course here. Going back my Happy Ever After club, you will not see it promoted directly to the public with a price tag. I did once when it first came out to see if people would sign up and to get some people, and I might have even put a price tag on it. I am not putting any energy into a strategic plan to market it and sell it other than including it and bundling it in with other products I am already selling. So if anybody's listening and they want to do that, then you're going to want to create a plan, a launch, get your people to go talk about how fun book club was and share it with their people. There are whole elements that I'm not even doing with this because, well, first of all, I just can't. There's so many other things I'm marketing and selling, so I've chosen this to be a product that exists inside another product. It is such a good idea. It could be run with and marketed, and it could be your thing. Somebody, an author or speaker could say, standing on that stage or wherever they go, buy my book and sign up for my book club.

Susan Friedmann 00:23:43

Yeah, no, I think it's an excellent way to repurpose your material, have another interest level with your book, interacting with you with your book, and, as you say, having those discussion questions, which is so much part of a book club. I mean, I belong to, umpteen, book clubs and yeah, I always look for the discussion questions, and it really bothers me when I go online and I can't find any. I was like, Why did we have this book? And there are no discussion questions? Kelly now, again, this is something a little newer, this concept. But if you think about it, what are some of the mistakes that you would say, hey, don't do this.

Kelly Swanson 00:24:29

Do not give yourself more work. Don't make it too big when you start. That is a thing that I in the past have constantly struggle with. I'll come up with an idea. I'll come up with a project. I'll think it's great. I'll schedule 27 of them. I'll create a shopping. I start big. And when really now, I've trained myself to start small, to just put it out there and see what happens. Don't lock yourself into anything. Maybe try one or two and see if it works. So start small and let it grow big rather than running off with an idea that quickly becomes so big you're overwhelmed. You don't have the time to do it now. You don't even want to look at it because it's become so scary. That would be my biggest piece of advice.

Susan Friedmann 00:25:21

Now, many authors want to turn their book into a workbook. Would you see this being taking the workbook and using that in this environment, or do you think that starts looking too much like a training program?

Kelly Swanson 00:25:39

Well, I love the concept of writing your book as a workbook. My story formula is a workbook. It's a playbook. I actually can sell it. Somebody first advised me, Kelly, you can sell your workbook for more than your regular book. We often poopoo it when it's called a workbook. Like, it's not as great. I sell just as many Susan, if not more, and can sell it at a higher price than just my regular book. So that's the first thing I wanted to say, is don't downplay a workbook or a journal. I mean, my thing is a journal. And I think our idea here for a book club is easier to do when it's a workbook than it is if it were just this wall of words that we wrote. Do you see what I'm saying? That well, most of our books are going to have chapters and concepts and broken down into a bite size manageable pieces. 

But to answer your question, I see no problem doing it as a workbook. I see the main issue being beauty. And the idea, in my opinion, was that it was a book club. While you wouldn't bring a workbook to the book club, I think you can bring a workbook to this online book club if you still treat it like a book club. And therefore, we're not coming to class. We don't go to the book club because we wanted a class. 

We go to book club because we wanted to throw around our opinions, have a glass of coffee or wine, and discuss higher-elevated concepts and themes. So I would say if you're going to use a workbook, great, but don't go to the minutiae. Don't go to the now we got to take three no, go to the overarching themes and concepts. Go to a story you wrote in there, go to the why you wrote the whole book and why this matters. That should be everybody's first one is, why did this book even exist? And stick to elevated conversations that could be related to discussion questions, as opposed to, okay, now let's fill in the blank. 

You don't want stuff that would be on a handout or fill in the blank or the real meat. However, my story formula, for example, Susan, goes through what I call the buyer profile, seller profile, and product profile. And when you get to the buyer profile, it makes you think about everything your buyer feels and values and what their perception is of you. And while it's a lot of work and a lot of content, you just answer, I've got 50 questions you can ask yourself about your buyer. While I would not make you do all that necessarily in a book club because it's not training, 

I might say today we're talking about that buyer profile, knowing and understanding your buyer. Wasn't that fascinating? What are three things that jumped out at you when you looked at that chapter? What do you think is most important in connecting to a buyer? I would ask them just more elevator broad-stroke questions that elicit an opinion in their response as opposed. To. Okay, get out your pieces of paper. We're all going to write down 25 questions. No, that's not what book club was supposed to be about. That's what a workshop was supposed to be about. When we go to a conference, for example, and whether your listeners are speakers or not, we all go to conferences in our life. There are keynotes, there are breakouts, there are workshops, there are general sessions, there's coffee chat, there's a panel of facilitated discussions. 

We go into each one of those with a different expectation of what's going to happen for us in there. Your people that are coming to your book club are going to come in with a different expectation of what it's going to feel like, and they are going to base it on what they know a book club to be. And so if you're going to change that, I would question whether you should still call it book club because kind of looping back to where we began. The beauty of this was the fact that I just took my content and repackaged it into a different kind of experience known as a book club.

Susan Friedmann 00:30:01

Yeah, that's beautiful. And thank you for bringing it back around. Something that you said earlier about workbooks that you can charge more. I've said this, umpteen, times to authors. Yes. They can charge 90, 99, let's say, for a paperback. They could easily charge $50 for a workbook. And it could be just the guts of your book with fill in the blank, as you say.

Kelly Swanson 00:30:28

I would rather have a workbook. I get geeky about it, especially the kind that I did my workbook at eight and a half by eleven because I personally want a full piece of paper. Now, I would have loved Spiral, but I didn't do my book that way because I like my book to lay flat and to open. I would rather have that from you. And this is just me personally. And I mean, I'm not minimizing regular books, but regular books. Susan, I am looking at eleven books that people have given me written in the format of a book. All of them are nonfiction. There are a couple of fiction ones, but the ones I'm talking about, all of them nonfiction. Yet a guy gave me a workbook this weekend. I've already opened it, I've already looked at it. Some of us would rather have a workbook. It's more appealing to us than the book. We never crack open because it looks like a bigger project for us to get through this book that I just ordered on whatever platforms. Does that make sense? 

Susan Friedmann 00:31:30

And the funny thing is that I have your workbook on my desk, and because it is that larger size, the eight and a half by eleven, it doesn't fit in to all of my shelves, so it stands out for me. So I'm seeing that every single day.

Kelly Swanson 00:31:51

Just so that, you know, wonderful and again, I wish it was spiral because I like to write on paper when I learn in a spiral notebook. But of course, you know, self-publishing. I didn't have that option, but we do. Well, wait a minute. We could if we wanted to, if we were willing to put the expense. Because, like you said, if somebody's willing to pay $50 for a workbook, and I might consider that when I write the Persuasion Principle book to go with my course, it might be worth looking at doing it as a spiral boy, wouldn't that turn everything upside down? Because I don't think you can self-publish a spiral workbook. You'd have to find a different way to print it.

Susan Friedmann 00:32:29

No, you can. Absolutely. I've got people who've got books in three-ring binders, so we can absolutely talk when you're ready.

Kelly Swanson 00:32:39

Okay, I will do that.

Susan Friedmann 00:32:40

So, Kelly, how can Alisonrs find out more about you? What would you like them to do as a result of this conversation?

Kelly Swanson 00:32:51

I would that's like asking, what do you want for Christmas? I would love for people to just join my social network. It's complimentary. It's free to join. I'm trying to bring people away from social media and create my own platform. Well, it's almighty networks, it's not mine. And all you need to do is go to Storyimpactnetwork.com. There are resources there. You can even access my Story formula book at no charge from there. And it's just a place where we hang out and talk Story. I would love that. If you can handle another platform, that's lovely.

Susan Friedmann 00:33:32

And I believe we put that in the previous show notes, but I will repeat it in these show notes as well, because the two episodes will definitely stand alone because they're so powerful. Kelly, we always leave our listeners with a golden nugget. A little takeaway from this interview. What would you like to leave our listeners with?

Kelly Swanson 00:33:53

I would leave you based on what we've been talking about, I would say, just as in technology, we need to be intentional about choosing a tool that works for us, instead of choosing to just use a tool that's going to make our life harder. I'm going to say the same about this book club idea or any idea you have around marketing your book. Don't go out and find something you think you have to do that's going to make your life harder. Instead, find something that already fits in and serves you. And I hope that makes sense, but make this fit your schedule and lifestyle. I chose book club to fit what I am able to do and set the rules the way I want to set them. Not, oh, is this the way I should do it? And I have to make my schedule fit the tool.

Susan Friedmann 00:34:52

Beautiful. Yes, I think you're absolutely right. And everybody can create their own. But this was an example, something that you did, and it's working well. For you. However, everybody could have their own interpretation of this. There's no right or wrong formula. So thank you. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom yet again. Thank you, Kelly. 

And listeners, by the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted it or expected it to, let's jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales. You've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return that you were hoping for. Go to BrainstormwithSusan.com to schedule your free call. In the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's. Wish you much book and author marketing success.

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