Susan Friedmann                                                                           00:40

Welcome to book marketing mentors, the Wiki podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters.

Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.

Today, my special guest is Paul Kreiter, Paul is the founder and CEO of Kreiter Creatives, a creative firm that designs personal and professional brand stories.

and represents and books talent for conferences, events, and speaking industry programs.

The core of Kreiter Creative's work is the back-pocket approach to brand storytelling.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           01:01

This is an accessible, reliable, and creative structure for any story to reach its target audience or client.

All it is an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the show and excited to have you here.

Thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    01:04

Oh, it's my pleasure.

I'm so happy to be here, Susan.

Thank you.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           01:24

Ran storytelling that your thing.

That's what you're a genius at.

But before we sort of delve into that, I always like to make sure that everybody understands we're all on the same page and define exactly What is brand storytelling?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    02:01

Brand storytelling is that feeling you give people when you say your company's name or you tell them about what you do.

It's that after effect when you walk away being like, There's a residual feeling that I still have that company brand or that personal brand in the room.

And what that means is it really touches on the core value mission and themes that that company does or that individual stands for.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           02:28

And then as it applies to a nonfiction author.

We're not a company.

Well, I suppose many authors are.

They have companies But let's talk about it more in terms of the actual nonfiction author.

They have a book and yet Where does this brand storytelling fall in this whole concept of the book?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    03:23

sure, the nonfiction author would put a lot of emphasis on brand storytelling because they're focused on the thing or things that drive them forward.

It's the reason why they put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard.

It's that information.

It's that message It's that story that just pours out of them, and it's driven by an emotional connection It's driven by social connections, it's driven by their professional world, nonfiction authors, I would even say more than companies need to be able to articulate to their target audiences.

This is my brand is why I do what I do.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    03:34

I think that's why people pick up those books because they wanna dive in to the mind, the heart, the soul of that nonfiction author's work.

And then how would that differ from the message

Susan Friedmann                                                                           03:41

that the book conveys, or is it the same thing?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    04:06

I think it could be the same thing, but I think if we can use the example of back in the nineties, I think it was honed behind the music.

So a song is a song.

Lyric's music, the band plays it, the singer sings it, and it makes us feel a certain way when we hear that.

And sometimes very different.

I might feel happy about this song.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    04:48

She might feel sad about this song.

honed behind the music did something pretty unique when it came to giving us an inside peek at what the artists were thinking, feeling, and what the process was like of creating that artwork.

And I think that's where the message and the brand can differ because We will, as audience members, sort of project our own experiences onto the story.

But when we get to hear what is the who are driving factors to get this story on the page, that's where the brand shines a little brighter.

Does that make sense?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           05:23

It does.

And what's going through my mind is the fact that I mean, I work with many of my authors to help them identify that message so that they can literally come off their tongue straight away without thinking about it.

It's just like a default with -- Right.

-- maybe just one sentence because if I ask them what the book is about, it could take 5, 10, 15 minutes, and then they've lost me.

Now how would an author identify their unique brand story?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    06:22

This is a very introspective process.

I've gone through it with coaches and mentors to help me find the core reason why I do what I do as a coach as a consultant and someone who creates content, I would say that it's hard to see our own forest through our own trees.

and only when we have a sounding board or even a writing sounding board where we can get our ideas out of our minds, out of our mouths, out loud on paper, and have some 2nd or even 3rd party perspective to restate what we've said so that we can find the words that feel right with our core brand story.

I think doing this in a vacuum is really hard.

And, Susan, that's why you exist people need help pulling this out of their bodies.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    06:41

And so that's one of the key ways to identify your unique brand story is by testing it with others.

Does this make sense to you?

Have I resonated?

Have I hit some sort of nail Do you get this?

Because it's so hard for me to see it on my own.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    07:03

And I think what a receptive audience is will say for sure and supportive audiences will be like, yes.

And just clarify for me.

Did you mean this?

because I heard this, and it could be a level of discovery that the individual nonfiction author was like, you know what?

Your perspective has given me clarity of my own.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    07:06

That kind of reciprocal relationship, I think, is pivotal.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           07:32

I totally agree with that.

because we become very myopic, I think, when we're looking at our own stuff.

And as he said, we don't see the wood for the trees.

because we're so immersed in, often maybe just one way of thinking about this not realizing that perhaps other people might see it, feel it, hear it differently.

Right.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           07:50

And so that having somebody like yourself who is able to help draw this out of us in a way that is open to more people feeling the emotional side of it because we tap into emotions.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    07:51

Right.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           07:58

I'm sure that this is something that you do brilliantly.

Right.

It's tapped into that emotional sigh?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    08:00

Sure.

On some days.

Right.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           08:02

On some days.

On the good days.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    08:28

I like the good days.

Well, yeah, I mean, I just think it makes sense Writing is a therapeutic activity.

When we can get the ideas that are in our heads or in our hearts down on the page or down on the Word doc or whatever we're using.

And I think it gives us a sense of perspective and clarity.

If we all could do it ourselves, we'd all be Buddhas sitting by the river, but it's hard.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    08:48

There's a lot of noise.

there's the impostor syndrome.

Right?

So there's noise from the external world, and then there's noise from our internal world.

There's always a sense of doubt or judging where it's not as good or I don't know if I am or despite all of my credentials or what I've done and who I've worked with, and maybe I'm not good enough to get this story out.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    09:06

I think that's why you need to build a team around you that says, I respect your hesitation but hear me out, hear us out because you're getting multiple opinions here, this works.

So go for it.

I think that level of confidence and camaraderie is so key.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           09:12

Yeah.

That voice in your head can -- Hate the voice.

-- wreak havoc.

that really can --

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    09:21

Very it can be paralyzing.

And for a writer I mean, writer's block is one thing.

But then to have your own voice get in the way, I can't even imagine.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           09:43

and teach some of this as well.

And I know some of the most famous people out there have admitted now that they have suffered or they suffered from this impostor syndrome.

So it's very real.

I mean, I remember the first time that I even came across knowing that this was a real thing.

This was way back when I started my company.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           10:03

I was, like, in early nineties, and I would doing some training, and I was like, are people actually gonna hire me?

Do I know this enough to be able to feel credible?

And coming across, you know, material about the impostor syndrome was life changing.

So, yes,

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    10:48

you know, that reminds me because you've made me think of something here.

The bulk of my work as a talent agent, which is one of the things that I do do in my job.

So I design the brand's stories for folks, and I also develop those stories into performances so that people can get on stage and they have written those stories, and they also can perform those stories.

I've had the pleasure and sometimes the displeasure because some celebrities and big celebrity athlete types could be kind of a handle sometimes, but I've had the pleasure of seeing some great artists at work preparing their craft, getting ready to take that stage, getting ready to tell that story.

These are award-winning best-selling fill in the accolade blank.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    11:16

Right?

And they in the green room, you know, the room that they sit in before they take the stage, they're nervous as ever.

and they need company and they need reassurance and they need help and they so if the audience is gonna take anything away from this, you know, that Everyone will at some point feel like maybe they can't or shouldn't.

but everybody wrestles with that, so you're in great company.

That's what I would say.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           11:30

Let's dig down deeper and talk about some of the actual techniques that our authors could use to uncover this unique brand story for themselves.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    11:56

Sure.

Over the years, because of all the great storytellers that I have been in front of, and helped craft those messages.

And also my backgrounds in the performing arts and stories drive me as an individual.

I love telling stories, love reading, and writing content.

So I have over the years seen what works and what doesn't in terms of how to connect with your audience.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    12:28

what we learned in school when we're writing the typical 5 paragraph theme essay, right, the first paragraph is for your introduction.

And then the next three paragraphs are for content and proof.

And then the final paragraph is for your conclusion.

That's a basic model that we learn when we're in middle school.

I have seen it as an adult now in the adult world working with some of the more charming storytellers is that model still hangs around.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    13:20

So I have framed it in a way that people find quote-unquote delicious.

because I call this the sandwich method, which I use for my writing exercises with my clients when we're getting their content on the page.

the sandwich method looks at content in three specific sections.

The top bun, which is that bun of your sandwich, which is your introduction, the layers of your sandwich, which are the key ideas or ingredients that you would use when telling your story, and then the bottom bun, which is what I have concluded, we have recapped, and I have given you some call to act.

This sandwich method is something that I use to get people's ideas out of their heads and onto the page.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    13:34

I always tell people to start with what you know.

So that's the key idea.

Everyone knows for sure they can blindfold, plug their ears, and say, I'm an expert on this.

I know this.

I know that.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    14:06

I know this.

We're all pretty confident about that.

Where we see the story falling to trouble is how do we get to that content and how do we leave that content and conclude the experience for an audience?

So the sandwich gives us this model, this structure for storytelling that is guaranteed to have that beginning middle, and end storytelling experience, but also to connect with your audience in a very meaningful way.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           14:23

That's beautiful.

That's such an easy model to remember.

Just think of that bun, as you said, hamburger or whatever is inside How about the length?

I mean, is this a 5 minute?

Is this a 15-minute?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           14:27

How long would that story take are there guidelines here?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    15:01

Sure.

When I start with folks and they're just looking for that core I need the core content out.

I try to frame it in a 1-minute pitch, if you will.

So we're not looking for writing that's going to be many pages long or an essay or the material that's gonna become a keynote presentation one day.

we're talking about getting right to the meat, cheese, and veggies of what you do and how you do it.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    15:31

And once we get that down, then even in a minute's time, which isn't a lot, it forces us to be creative in terms of how we get to the meat, cheese, and veggies, of what we do and how we do it and then how we exit from it.

So the 60-minute pitch, which I call the back pocket brand story pitch, if you will, and why back pocket?

Because I always feel like everybody needs that story.

They can reach into their back pocket and say, yep.

I have something to say.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    15:46

I've got that story right now.

Whether it's 60 seconds or 60 minutes, the idea is that it follows that framework, which forces you to be creative and information-heavy, but also taking care of your audience.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           16:07

And, of course, it needs to relate to them emotionally because, yeah, you want to attract people to you as you said, I mean, that last bit is, you know, sort of that call to action.

Well, if they haven't related to you, you know, then forget it.

It falls flat.

So it's got to appeal.

Yeah.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           16:18

I mean, this is interesting in terms of How could you ensure that it appeals?

Well, I I say to everyone, it's not going to appeal to everyone, but to the majority of people.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    16:49

One of the biggest challenges in getting a story down and making it resonate is to figure out how much time you spend in each one of these sections.

because if you overdo it in certain sections or you underdo it in certain sections, You're going to miss your audience.

You're gonna miss that opportunity.

So if we're thinking of the sandwich as a model, right, and for our viewers out there, Yes.

You can think of a burger, bun, meat, cheese, veggies, bun, or you can think of that icon, the menu icon that we see on everyone's website.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    16:53

Right?

Those 3 horizontal lines.

Right?

There's one line.

There are 2 lines.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    17:13

There are 3 lines.

And each one of them is a section of your story.

What we have to remember is that a sandwich bun is a thin layer.

Right?

It's not a thick piece of, you know, double-size Texas toast.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    17:36

And it's a curvy bun that has its kind of a slender shape a little bit rounded, but it has its thinner consistency.

So if you think about that in terms of, well, what does that mean in terms of content?

Well, that means you're not going to spend all your time there because it's a thin layer.

It's a significant layer, but it's thin.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    17:45

So we think of how much time should you spend writing in your introduction, that top fund moment, for the total time you spend

Susan Friedmann                                                                           17:47

15%

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    17:52

of that writing opportunity, that storytelling opportunity should be in that top bun,

Susan Friedmann                                                                           17:53

15%.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    18:30

And on the other end of it, that bottom bun, which is also a thinner layer, right, certainly much thinner than the ingredients of your sandwich or your key ideas, that is also a 15% of total time devoted to the concluding part of your storytelling experience, which leaves the bulk meat, cheese, and veggies, the key ideas at 70% that's where you should be spending most of your time.

And the challenge is finding that creative in and out so that you're using the

Susan Friedmann                                                                           18:31

15%

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    18:37

on both ends wisely, creatively that keeps your audience focused and driving them forwards.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           18:57

And what's coming up for me is that you can express your self and leave people wanting more.

And that I think is part of the call to action maybe is, like, Yes.

I'm giving you just a taste of this.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    18:58

Correct.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           19:02

And I'm like, okay.

Give me more.

Where can I get more?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    19:43

Right?

And more, that compellingness, if you will, is different for everybody.

But the idea is, maybe I wanna learn more about this person's next writing.

Maybe I wanna dive into some research about this historical concept or idea that this person was speaking on, maybe the history or the experiences that this person had in real life in this city compels you to go visit.

That's what that final 15% is for is to wrap it all together, remind us of where we came from, but not in an academic or clinical way.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    20:08

What we've discussed in this piece of writing is this, that, and so and so.

No.

That's not what we're doing.

we are subtly and creatively reminding people of the throughlines of the story they've heard and what they can do about it now, and that's what compels audiences not only to go do something, but also to come back and want to hear more from you.

the authors who are writing these things.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    20:13

It's a brilliant and such a human connection sort of experience.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           20:18

And it's such an easy formula to remember because it you made it so visual.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    20:19

You mean delicious?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           20:24

Delicious.

Yes.

It's delicious.

except that mine would be a veggie burger.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    20:28

Right.

Right.

Right.

You'll be a soybean patty, not a burger.

So soybean patty, everybody.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    20:29

Yes.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           20:39

All this is begging me to say Tell us yours.

Have you got a 1-minute story in your back pocket that you can pull out for us?

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    20:53

Sure.

I always have to remind myself I have to walk the walk.

Right?

So I'm telling everybody that I work with, what's that thing that drives you forward, what's that why you do you.

For me is all about creating an experience for an audience.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    21:33

Whether that's an audience that's gonna read content or that's the audience that's gonna be in his chair watching a stage or if that's an audience behind a camera and I'm doing some sort of virtual experience.

Why?

My most complicated memories.

I think we all go back to our childhood a little bit to talk about what drives us forwards But I am a survivor of acute lymphocytic leukemia from ages four to six.

I spent a lot of time in the hospital And you can imagine the nightmare that creates for my family, my older sister at the time, and my parents And I survived.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    21:59

I am fine.

Everything is okay for me.

But what our family was left with was a bit of a mishmash of physical and mental health complications.

Having a sick kid who may not make it is not a great, you know, hand of cards to be dealt.

So I have been very conscious and everything that I have done from age six on Believe it or not, is okay.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    22:42

Do I have an opportunity to affect someone in a positive way?

I've been given an opportunity to do this again a little bit.

So I don't always see happy faces in my family.

What can I do to change that I don't always see happy faces on my friends, on my colleagues, on my classmates, in my teachers, in my bosses, what can I do to change that and for me telling a great story, getting people to think, getting people to question, getting people to be introspective, to laugh, and to enjoy the storytelling experience because I always think an audience deserves that gift.

the gift of a great story.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    23:07

That's why I went into performing arts.

That's why I went into teaching, and that's why I work with talent and design these stories for people.

You never know how much time we're gonna have here.

So create something amazing for people And if they thank you and they wanna give you high fives and gold stars, humbly say thank you, but it's not about me because it isn't.

It's about the experience you can create for others.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    23:08

That's what drives me, Susan.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           23:30

Oh, it's beautiful.

Now I'm gonna take you one step further.

Could you pull this apart for us very simply?

That top bun, the top layer of the bun, is the whole idea of setting the scene where you were telling us, you know, from 4 to 6, you're in the hospital, go through that with me --

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    23:30

Sure.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           23:31

-- or with us.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    24:04

Sure.

So my top bun would be a descriptive memory, and I have many of them.

of what it's like being, you know, prednisone swells your face.

So they had something called moon face with kids or adults who have to take this medicine for chemo, your body changes, your face changes, you lose your hair.

So my top one moment could be something that describes me in that state gives them a real picture of this strange looking child.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    25:06

and what that does to that child's self efficacy, how that child gets a perspective on what is really important and what is not, things like the summer camp bus, I might tell this story.

where the summer camp bus would pick me up in my cul de sac I would go to a day camp which was 15 minutes away by bus.

I had friends on the bus My sister went to that camp too, but prednisone makes you nauseous so I had to travel on the bus with a pail like a bucket.

and they would always have to stop the bus from me because I would inevitably throw up, and then they'd have to stop the bus, they'd have to walk out, throw out my vomit, get back on, and then look at the glares and scares of the kids who just think I'm the weird bald moon face kid who can't stop throwing up and they have no idea what I'm going through.

But yet as a five year old, I have to suck it up and just look around me at the people who are taking care of me.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    25:26

My sister is always there, my best friend, is always there, and to take that with me.

So my top button moment, Susan, would be some recollection of putting the audience in the shoes of what my life was like.

and how those moments lay the foundation for the rest of your life.

That's where I think I would go.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           25:55

And then I definitely that whole call to action, the idea that this is what you basically felt is your purpose in life is are those stories and being able to share that with others and helping other people do this for themselves.

Whether their story is it's poignant but in a different way.

We don't, obviously, all have thank goodness what you went through but we have other things that we've gone through.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    26:10

Right.

There is no competition here.

It's not comparing one person's miseries or triumphs to another.

it's finding yours.

But really finding it, though, right, not settling for something that is maybe

Susan Friedmann                                                                           26:12

65%

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    26:23

of the way there.

No.

It's okay to find that thing.

Maybe there's more than one.

But what someone like you can do, Susan, for your clients, what I do for mine, is say, okay.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    26:35

What is the through line between these few different whys that you're stating, and there's usually a core foundational variable that's the common denominator.

Right?

Susan Friedmann                                                                           26:52

Beautiful.

Which is a great segue, Paul, in letting our listeners know how they can find out more about you and the services you offer because I don't know about them, but you definitely pulled a lot of my heart strings.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    26:52

So I'm

Susan Friedmann                                                                           26:57

going to assume that there are a few people out there who might have felt the same way.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    27:03

Sure.

Sign up and cry.

Yeah.

Sign up and come cry with me, and throw up all over the place.

Sure.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    27:30

So my name is Paul Kreiter, and that's spelled Kreiter.

The company that I'm the founder of is called Kreiter Creatives, and you can find us at kreitercreatives.com.

I offer anyone can schedule a call with me to discuss what they think might be that core brand story idea that they're floating around.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    28:08

to a 20-minute phone call.

There's no obligation to work with me or to do anything more than just share your story.

And I open my door to anybody who wants to do that, and you can reach me from the website.

You can also reach me at my email address, which is [email protected] And what we learn often is that after that initial free consultation, free conversation, just to get to know each other and hear the story, is that there is an opportunity to extend that work in a 90-minute workshop that I offer.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    28:20

It is something that I offer for a price.

It's part of the services that I provide, and you can find all that information on my website as well.

but it always starts with a free conversation.

Come and meet me.

Tell me your story.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    28:27

Let's talk because get to know each other.

And then if there's a way forward for a workshop and work beyond that, then we dive into it.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           28:50

Beautiful.

And I will put all that information in the show notes, Paul, because never know where people are listening to the and they don't necessarily have a pen, paper, or a keyboard, or whatever close by.

And as you know, always like to leave our listeners with a golden nugget.

What's yours, Paul?

Put a team around you.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           28:54

that is going to support your ideas, push you to really get at the core heart

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    29:19

of why you do what you do.

It's hard to do on your own.

We don't have to do this in a vacuum, folks.

There are so many wonderful people out there like Susan that we are designed to do this for you So reach out.

Start that conversation.

Paul Kreiter                                                                                    29:29

Why not?

Let's get started.

That's my nugget is Go for it because I know we all have that story in us and put the team around you to get it out.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           29:45

Beautiful.

Yes.

I mean, hey.

We've written a book.

Many of the authors have written books that they want to get that message out there, but making it enticing you know, appealing to people's heart, which you did so brilliantly for us.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           30:28

So thank you.

And thank you for sharing this incredible wisdom Listeners.

You're gonna have to listen to this episode several times over to really take in all the incredible nuggets and gems that Paul shared with us.

And by the way, If your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, lets you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for.

So go to BrainstormWithSusan.com to schedule your free call.

Susan Friedmann                                                                           30:28

And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books.

So until next week, he is wishing you much book and author marketing success.

Here's how to connect with Paul [email protected]
Book your complimentary 20-minute session with Paul