Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today. My special guest is Helen Osborne. Helen helps professionals communicate health information in ways that patients and the public can understand. Hand. She brings to this work her experience as an occupational therapist, training as an educator, and perspective as a patient. Helen is president of Health Literacy Consulting, founder of Health Literacy Month, and author of the award-winning text "Health Literacy from A to Z." She also hosts two podcast series, "Health Literacy Out Loud" and "Talking about Blood."  Helen was honored to receive the Alvarez Award for Excellence in Health Communications from the American Medical Writers Association.

Helen, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show, and I really appreciate having you as this week's guest, expert, and mentor.

Helen Osborne [00:01:15]:

Thank you, Susan, for inviting me. Happy to share.

Susan Friedmann [00:01:18]:

So, Helen, you've got an incredible we were talking before a case study of what you have done with your book. You've done everything totally nontraditionally. First of all, you published traditionally, and then you came and worked with a hybrid publisher. You came to work with Aviva Publishing, and then you've had this book now for 18 years, third edition, and you're doing better than ever. So let's dig into what you've done, how you've done it, and some tips and techniques that our listeners can take away. So you focused on academia, which is an area that most people don't even think about. Talk to us about this. Talk to us a little bit. Set the stage for us.

Helen Osborne [00:02:14]:

Actually, Susan, when I wrote the book originally in 2005, I wrote it for practicing clinicians. I wrote it for people like me in everyday practice and over the time and I was working with a textbook publisher, then I realized that it could also be used for the textbook market as people in health programs. It could be a how to guide for both people practicing in the field and people wanting to be in the field. But my book does not neatly fit the model of either one, and I had to figure that out. How could I meet the needs of practicing professionals as well as students? Over the years, it has evolved. It still sells to practicing professionals. But I'm seeing now that I'm working with you in this hybrid model, I'm getting many, many more sales from the textbook market because that's a repetitive market. So happy to share about that.

Susan Friedmann [00:03:14]:

If one of our listeners wanted to even think about getting into that field, where would you recommend that they start.

Helen Osborne [00:03:22]:

Getting into the field of higher ed?

Susan Friedmann [00:03:25]:

Yes.

Helen Osborne [00:03:26]:

Starts with a good book, of course, good content that your audience really needs. And I mean, I'm being flip on that one, but it's really what they need, and it has to fit into the needs of contemporary times and needs of their curriculum and their learning. The reason I redid my book yet again and writing a third edition is, as you might know, Susan, it's a ton of work and did I really want to do this again? Information needs to stay relevant and up to date, and for textbooks that really can't be older than five years old. So lots of things you need to do as a textbook. If it's a traditional textbook, however, they tend to have their own format. There's a lot of things you have to keep working with, but it starts with good content that people really need to know.

Susan Friedmann [00:04:18]:

Now, the difference between a textbook and recommended reading, how would you respond to that?

Helen Osborne [00:04:29]:

I think textbook, as I use the term, is an overall book that's used in a course. There's generally two different ways to think of it. There's recommended reading and there's required reading or required text. We can talk about the use of desk copies, but I am generous happy to give desk copies to instructors as long as my book is required reading for 20 or more students. Recommended readings. If anyone thinks back to when they were in college or if they're in university now, even graduate programs, there's usually a different kind of book. Like, we're requiring this. We're going to build our curriculum around this book versus if you want to learn more, here's some recommended readings. What's happening? With the cost of universities and education these days and the easy access to a lot of other kinds of information and sources, instructors are mighty reluctant to require a textbook. They're really trying to watch the cost for their students. I have actually intentionally kept my book at the lower end of what textbooks cost in there. So it's quite different. But recommended text could be anywhere. I make it quite clear in there that it's often a required text. That's the core of their curriculum.

Susan Friedmann [00:05:51]:

A couple of things that you mentioned there that I want to pick up on one of them. You and I talked a little bit about this prior to this interview. We talked about the idea of desk copies. Talk to us about desk copies, what that is exactly, and why a professor would need one.

Helen Osborne [00:06:11]:

Okay. A desk copy is a free copy of your book. It can be print or it can be digital. But instructors are used and expect that they will get a desk copy for free that they can use to decide whether to use this as a text in their course. And also they want it as they plan their curriculum. Now, it could be your author, Susan. If someone is just listening to this and hadn't been in that market, they might be thinking, oh, my goodness, I don't want to be giving away all these free copies and they're not buying it or whatever else I actually think it's like a gift. I love it when people send requests for desk copies. I make it very clear. I do it on my own website. I do it on information about my book. I think you have. It on Aviva. I include you in emails about this, that instructors are welcome to request a desk copy. And I always say yes, but I say if it's a required text for 20 or more students, well, somebody might. Say. But then they have to email and they email you and me. So we're both on this one, which gives it even more credibility to it, which is true. And you also we serve as backups in there. They can come from anywhere in the world. When they contact me, you might send it to me, or I might get it, and then I start a conversation with them, like, oh, that's great. What course are you teaching? Where is it located? Required text. And someone might say, you know what, I'm considering this, or I have 15 students, not 20. Generally, I say that's fine. This is an opportunity to start a relationship with the instructors, which, to me, I'm smiling as I'm telling you that it is a gift. I thoroughly enjoy this. So, yes, I'll give them the freebie copy. They almost always say this book is perfect for what I need. But I also say I am happy to support your teaching. And here are some ways I can do this. We could have a phone call. A brief phone call about your curriculum and chapters in my book and how you might pair that with some of my podcasts. Many of the instructors are new to teaching this course, sometimes they're assigned to teach this course at the last minute, sometimes teaching in a while, and they love that support in their curriculum. And what I get out of this. Susan it's a joy. I hear what they're focusing on. I hear what topics because they don't have to teach my whole book there. They pick and choose different chapters. I hear what's relevant. I hear other contemporary issues they're dealing with, and I can address those. I don't think that many authors are this generous with a little bit of time. And so it's a freebie copy of the book to support their teaching. It's wonderful all around the other way that I'm happy to support teaching. I say I can welcome your students to my topic of health literacy. I can welcome to the book. And we do a video call. We might use Zoom or something else. I say to the students, they already all have a copy of my book, we talk about the field, why it's important, how as they pursue their career, how they might make a difference, and the instructors are just tickled by that. Here's the author of our book who's talking to us, it's great, that, to me is the biggest payback of all, it's those relationships. So it's not just a book. It's not just a required text. It's a living document in that way. So I think it works all around.

Susan Friedmann [00:10:10]:

And your passion is absolutely coming through listeners. You know, that one of the things that I talk about, especially when you and I have a talk together, is your passion for your material. And you can hear this in Helen's voice. It's just absolutely right there. She loves her stuff. That passion is contagious when she shares it with others. What that says to me, too, Helen, is you're opening yourself up for this sale, for, umpteen, books, let's say. But hopefully that professor, that instructor, will be doing that course for several years to come, in which case your book would be number one, hopefully, on their hit list.

Helen Osborne [00:10:58]:

That's exactly right, Susan. It's repetitive sales for one program. It's actually a program for nursing students, I think, who have one level of education or degree, and then all the students are going from their associates to their bachelor or their bachelor to their master's or something. This one university, I think it's a state university, has many courses. Like, many instructors are teaching this, like, four or five different programs going on all the same time for students in that my book is the required book in all of them. So multiply that out. Multiply out those sales. Susan, all your listeners, you have 20, 30, 40 students in each class, taught, like, five different segments of that class. And it's once a year or twice a year or three times a year. It's repetitive sales, and I don't have to do any selling. What I did for that group and it was so much fun, and it wasn't a ton of work for me. I made this offer to the person. I'll do a video call with you, to the person in charge of all the different components, all the different classes. And what they did, we did it like a group call, a zoom call. They all asked me questions, and we had a conversation, and I made it relevant to their students and to their courses. So the students get to watch this video at the beginning of every semester with their teachers in it, the head person and me talking about the topic, why health literacy matters. And I genuinely mean it, that their students are the next generation who will make a difference. And I'm encouraging them to go learn this. Put it in your own world and make a difference. They get that little video and what did it take me, 15 minutes, maybe a half an hour planning. That was it. It's fun, and they see it every semester. And on the side, all those students are buying my book every semester.

Susan Friedmann [00:12:54]:

And one other thing that I'm sure this gets recommended, instructors talk to each other at conferences. And what book are you using? What have you found that's worthwhile? Guess what? Well, have you heard of Helen Osborne's health literacy? A to Z? We love that book.

Helen Osborne [00:13:12]:

And the other thing, Susan, if I can add my podcasts, are very much wedded into this book, even more so in the newest edition. My podcasts like you, I do them regularly. I've been doing them for years and years and years. But that's how I find up to date contemporary information, because some instructor might be saying, I want to know about inclusion or issues of sexual identity or community services or something, that maybe I didn't focus on it enough in the book. Well, I don't feel like rewriting that book right now. Thank you. But I might have a podcast on that topic so I can steer the instructors to contemporary issues that they can be grappling with.

Susan Friedmann [00:13:56]:

Beautiful. That's fantastic. Now, a couple of other things that you mentioned that I want to touch on. One of them was the idea of digital. Talk to us about digital in this environment.

Helen Osborne [00:14:09]:

Well, my book is available in print and digital versions. Different distributors do it different ways, just like people like to read books in different ways. I have my strong preferences about it, too. I work with many different distributors. Some of them are digital only. Some of them have inclusive relationships with universities. And this is something I've had to learn about. So, yes, my book is available in Amazon and Kindle, which is print and digital. It's an Apple, which is digital only. Barnes and Noble, which is print and digital. It's also in academic bookstores. I also work with these two programs called RedShelf and Vital Source. They're two different distributors, and they have what's called an inclusive relationships with universities. And what that means is that if universities have a course and my book is the required text, that when the students are paying for the course, they automatically are paying for my book. They can opt out of it, but few of them ever do. There. Those are digital only, and at least one of them and there are so many distributors, I get them all a little confused. But at least red shelf students can choose to get the book. They can rent it for 90 days, 180 days, 365 days, or lifetime access. So different price points along the way. That keeps down the cost. Certainly, if they want the book only for that semester, they're paying a whole lot less for it. But their access cuts off at the end of whatever time they signed up for. There's another beauty to that, and that has to do with accessibility. I had somebody at some course call me and say, we have a student who's blind. What about this? And I said, no problem. Get the book through RedShelf. They automatically have text to speech. It's just built into it. So it didn't take me a moment there. It's not like I had to create something new. It's in there so it's available to people with disabilities. So I think those models are great. I love that people can rent the book if they want to, and that's available to other people. Remember I told you practicing professionals can be using the book too. Maybe they just want the book for a little while. They've got a much lower price point. That's how I work with different ones.

Susan Friedmann [00:16:35]:

That's fantastic. That's a great segue into pricing, because one of the things that you mentioned earlier about the printed copy, you mentioned pricing, and yours is a little lower maybe than many textbooks. Let's talk about some numbers. What does your book sell for currently? The printed version under $50.

Helen Osborne [00:16:58]:

It's 40 something. I forget what it is right now. I might have to bump that up because I just heard that Amazon is going to your royalties will be a little bit less because they're going to take more for their printing costs.

Susan Friedmann [00:17:12]:

Paper is more expensive, and distribution of paper, I mean, that's a big issue amongst printers currently. So yes, I can understand that happening.

Helen Osborne [00:17:21]:

Yes, I'll have to figure out that one. I always, from the first time I worked on this in 2005 and working with a textbook editor, I don't know if folks know textbooks can go for hundreds of dollars. And I remember that the wonderful editor I was working with, I said, I don't want my book to be more expensive than the price of a pedicure. And he said, I've never even had a pedicure. But I just thought if people are willing to spend that much money on something that is not essential, maybe someone think a pedicure is essential, but on that, they can pay that for a book. So I got pushback from it. And traditional publishers for textbooks want it to be $100, more than $100. But students today, their loans that they're taking out, I don't think even covers the price of a textbook anymore. So they might get a loan for a certain amount or a scholarship or whatever it is. The textbook price is different. I don't want to gouge anybody on this. I'd rather be selling lots and lots of copies of it and really doing good deeds in that way. And I made out just fine, thank you. Rather than just doing a tremendous amount of money, but selling fewer copies. Also, my audience just never would spend like 100 some dollars just for a book they want to just keep in their office.

Susan Friedmann [00:18:49]:

Yeah. And the beauty, as we know, is that when you came to work with Aviva, you keep all of the profit. Now, whereas when you were working with a traditional publisher, that wasn't quite the case. Now, let's look at the digital. How do you price the digital then?

Helen Osborne [00:19:08]:

One of the companies helped me figure out about the digital. I could go look, I don't remember what it is. It's some fraction of it. It's like in the 20 something range. That's what I did. I had to work with this group that does the 90 day 183, 65, and different price points. I asked them for recommendations.

Susan Friedmann [00:19:28]:

They guide you, which is good to know.

Helen Osborne [00:19:30]:

Yeah, they did. They were really helpful. And I say, really? I'm a one person shop here right now. How do I make this all work? And it's worked out just fine.

Susan Friedmann [00:19:40]:

Fabulous mistakes. Our listeners love hearing about mistakes. What are some of the mistakes you see or you've heard people make? When you and I talked earlier, you talked about somebody you saw in a Facebook group with too much effort to do some work, working with some of these distributors.

Helen Osborne [00:20:02]:

Yeah. I wanted you right back. I don't think I did. Like, are you kidding me? I wouldn't have said that. Yes, it takes work to work with these distributors. And when I was working with the textbook publisher, everyone did it for me. I didn't have to do any of it. I got my royalty statement and my royalties, and that was it. Once I switched over working on the hybrid model, and with you, Susan, I had this steep learning curve of, oh, my goodness. What do I do about desk copies? What do I do about distributors? How do I get to this other distributor? How do I get into the academic and medical libraries? What about worldwide rights? There's all kinds of things I have had to learn about that took a lot of effort. I don't think they're quite mistakes. But some of the challenges I've had when I start working with some of these distributors, I'm a one person shop here. I don't want to spend more money than I have to. There are very complicated signed agreements I have so that we can work together, multi pages. I don't have a lawyer. I don't want to bring in a lawyer. I'm doing my best to figure this thing out, and there were parts of it, and I had a few gulp moments, and I spoke to you about it, Susan, and you and I tried to figure out, like, that's a steep learning curve, how to do that. So if I've made mistakes, I can't think of anything I couldn't undo in there. Everything's fluid, including pricing and marketing and all that. So it's just been a steep learning curve. And I'm happy to talk. If anyone else is in a comparable situation, they're welcome to email me, and I'll help brainstorm it. I don't know anybody else doing what I'm doing, but I know for me, it worked out great, and a whole lot of things have worked out well. Tips I'm happy to share. Lessons learned.

Susan Friedmann [00:21:57]:

That's wonderful. Yes. And I know in a few minutes, I'm going to ask you how people can find you and how they can make that contact. Because, to be honest, you're my only author who does anything like this. I've got a few who work sort of on the periphery in academia or academia might have reached out to me and said, I'm interested in ordering ten copies, 15 copies of so and so's book. But it's not where yours is. That's your niche. I mean, you've literally penetrated that niche and are making it work and have become well, you're quite a celebrity in your own right, in that environment, which I admire, and I know that it's working well, obviously, profitability wise, and the fact that you're a big fish in a small pond, and I love that you know that.

Helen Osborne [00:22:57]:

Well, Susan, you and I have a long, long relationship and a very fond one, professionally and personally. So you've helped me along the way. There's been problem-solving. So again, I wouldn't use the mistake, but I've had to do some problem-solving. And sometimes I'll call you like, Susan, I need to talk. You're always there, and we'll kind of figure it out because I don't know anybody else doing what I'm doing, and you don't know anybody else. So the two of us and I think it's been mutual because you seem to be learning. And the fact you're doing this podcast now, you're curious about this whole new world, and I've learned about it, so we've shared back and forth the other part that I didn't mention. My book is now on some lists. That is where librarians go, medical librarians, academic librarians. It's harder to get on their list. They have very high standards. And I've had to go, I'm not with a traditional publisher anymore. You really want me. I have to be upfront about that. And they said, your book is thoroughly vetted, and yes, we do. I don't know how you'd enter that if you're not an author with a long track record. To build that credibility, you have to earn it.

Susan Friedmann [00:24:07]:

That's a really important point, is earning that. And as you said earlier, too, building those incredible relationships with the instructors. I mean, this is sort of like part of that domino effect, I think, of that. Plus, as you rightly said right at the very beginning, writing a damn good.

Helen Osborne [00:24:27]:

Book, right, that's assumed you need to know what you're talking about.

Susan Friedmann [00:24:31]:

Yeah, I mean, you're very credible in your marketplace. You've got the background as a therapist, as a practitioner, as an educator. I mean, you've got that. Not everybody obviously has got that going in. But yes, it's interesting to know what other opportunities might exist. And this whole idea of librarians in the medical environment, medical librarians, that's, again, all part of this penetrating this niche market, so good for you.

Helen Osborne [00:25:08]:

And then how did I find out about this? And I have a whole bunch of people I'm in touch with, and I've known as colleagues for years. Some medical librarians' friends said, you know what, we always get our books from EPSCO. EPSCO is the big academic, and medical libraries is your book. On that list. So I had to approach EPSCO or a written house that does academic libraries. Actually, Barnes and Noble do bookstores. I had to figure out about those and have relationships with all of them. So I've learned about a whole other world out there that I never knew about.

Susan Friedmann [00:25:43]:

Very quickly, without going into too much depth, but how do you use Amazon? Because so many authors just think, oh, I'm just going to post my book on Amazon and that's all I need to do. How do you use Amazon?

Helen Osborne [00:25:57]:

My book is there. I probably have a bigger percentage of sales from Amazon than anywhere else. Yes, go forth. Go to Amazon and do the digital one as well. My book is there at the same time. I did Apple and Barnes and Noble at the same time, so I wouldn't rule that out. But my sales are not as high as they are on Amazon. People just assume to go there. There was a bit of a transition as I went from one edition to the other because I wanted to keep my ratings from the older editions. So that all the comments you had there and your stars and your sales and all that stuff. I wanted to keep that as I moved to a new edition. I don't want to sell the old ones anymore. I had to work with the folks at Amazon. If you dig deep enough, you can find a contact page where there's a transition as you go from one addition to the other, how they can keep and retain that, and how you do that. So there's a lot happening behind the scenes in all these different ways. I've never met a grouchy person. Sometimes you have to push a little bit to find someone who's helpful, but eventually, people help me. I didn't know how you transition from one addition to the other without losing the good stuff that you had before I figured it out. They taught me.

Susan Friedmann [00:27:15]:

Yeah, that's brilliant. However, you also send people there or they know to go there. It's not that they're just discovering you necessarily on Amazon. Is that correct?

Helen Osborne [00:27:29]:

Right. I mean, you do a search there for health literacy. You'll find a few books. That's how I see what else is coming out. There's nothing quite like it and certainly not at my price point. So you do that. There's something else I like because my book is used worldwide. If someone in Australia wants to use it in their class or Canada or Mexico, wherever they are, and they ask for a desk copy, I used to think, oh, I got to mail this copy and international all this. I don't have to anymore. It's Amazon. They have distributors in Canada and many places around the world, and I'm just paying my author rate to get it shipped to wherever they are. It's fabulous. So it's not costing me very much anyway. So it cost me the price of my book and the price of Amazon shipping. And they get it a few weeks later. And they're thrilled that's if they want the paper one, I say, if you want a digital copy, I actually do it through Red Shelf because they can get it immediately and it doesn't cost me anything. I just can give them through Red Shelf. It's one of our agreement things, is I can give someone complimentary lifetime access, so there's all kinds of ways to do it that's not a budget breaker and the payoff is huge.

Susan Friedmann [00:28:42]:

One final thing I know it's like so many things that are just one leading to the next, but speaking engagements, how has that developed as a result of the book and then your reputation in the marketplace?

Helen Osborne [00:28:58]:

Well, since the world shut down, everything I might have said is different, but now the world's starting to open back up. Speaking engagements used to be a huge part of what I did and obviously, it's not a big deal anymore. I'm happy I'm going off to my first in-person engagement next week. The first one since COVID What I do for where I speak is I say I'll give you a couple of copies if you want. I say, if you want to buy any in bulk, I will give you a discount. I've actually had many distributors, including Foreign Book Source, who has asked, what is your discount rate if we order some? And I know for print, it's 35% off. Even the group I'm going to next week was thrilled they ordered some more copies. At that rate, I still am making a nice profit on it. Thank you. What I do also say is I wrote the book. I don't want to sell the book and I do not sell my book on site. I say you can buy it, you can do whatever you want with it. And often they use it as giveaways or prizes or whatever they want to do. Totally up to them. I am not going to sit there and sell it and make money. Partly I don't want to take the time, but also I do not want to get into the tax implications of being in another state and taking money for it. I don't do that. They can get it at that lower price point and they can do whatever they want with it. Has the book gotten me speaking engagements? I don't think it's worked that way, but certainly, I have ongoing credibility between the podcast and the book, and my speaking. It all works as a group. I don't know which comes first, but it all works very nicely together.

Susan Friedmann [00:30:44]:

That's the beauty. It's not just one thing that you can put all your eggs in one basket. And I think that's the beauty of what you're saying here, is that it does take all those different things and it keeps evolving. I mean, I'm sure maybe next year something else comes. Out, and you're looking at that as another opportunity. Helen, this has been amazing. And I know you and I, and we've done this many times, can speak for hours. How do our listeners find out more about you? And if they want some encouragement or some advice on this whole academic environment, how can they find you?

Helen Osborne [00:31:22]:

Sure, my website. I have several websites, as probably most of the world does these days, but it's health literacy.com. The word Health and the word Literacytogether.com org will get you there, too. My email is [email protected], if you go to my website, you go to the resources pages. It's a little hidden. Then you click the resource, then you'll find my book, and then you'll see what I say about desk copies. You'll see links to a lot of my different distributors out there. So really, email is the best. Helen, at Health Literacy.com, go to the websites. And I do have two different podcasts, but the one relevant to our conversation is health literacyoutloud.com. I wanted to add one other thing,
Susan, when you were summing this up, out of all the joys of doing this, is it speaking, is it podcast, is it the book, is it consulting? It's all of that together. But the best benefit of all, from my perspective, is the joy of doing this. I really enjoy it every day, and that is the best reward of all.

Susan Friedmann [00:32:34]:

And that comes through loud and clear. We usually like to end with a golden nugget, but I think that is a beautiful golden nugget shows everything that you do, you're passionate about it, and that passion is contagious not only for everybody else but helps to keep you up. I mean, is it all easy? No. But you love what you do, and that is beautiful. So, Helen, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us. It's always a pleasure. Listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales, because you invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to Brainstormwithsusan.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success!