Susan Friedmann [00:00:31]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.

Today my special guest is Jenn Hemmingsen. Jenn is a career journalist and ghostwriter who helps CEOs, founders, and nonfiction authors share their experiences and ideas with millions of readers of top business and trade publications.

She works with entrepreneurs, coaches, independent professionals, and C-suite executives enabling clients from globally diverse companies worth a total of four point three billion dollars to maintain a competitive edge in the ever-changing field of marketing strategy.

Jenn. What an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:01:33]:

Oh, thank you, Susan. It's an honor to be here.

Susan Friedmann [00:01:36]:

Jenn, you and I have been discussing, thought leadership, and I thought that would make a great topic for us to dive in and talk about. First of all, let's start off with understanding what Thought leadership actually is, and then why it's so important for our nonfiction authors to be showing and exhibiting their thought leadership.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:02:02]:

That's a great question. Thank you. Thought leadership is just all it is is this essence. It's a sort of an expression of Your ideas and your expertise. It's different from other kinds of marketing and that it really is a transparent way to help people get to know you and what you know, and it's more of a giving type of Marketing where you're sharing your knowledge and skills with people in order to not only let them get to know you a little bit more, but also to hopefully sort of like Build the knowledge base in your particular field of expertise.

Susan Friedmann [00:02:35]:

I love that. So it's a giving, it's a sharing of your information. Now, of course, As you know, we've got so many authors listening here. How do they find their thought leadership? You know, where is this going to come from?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:02:51]:

It's gonna come from inside. Basically,  thought leadership is not the kind of thing that you can fake or just sort of take from somebody else. It's got to come straight from your own mind and your own heart and your own work. I mean, when you think about somebody like Brene Brown. Right? She is the vulnerability thought leader, not because she decided that vulnerability was catchy and that it was gonna work for her and it was gonna get clicks and views, But because that's really where her passion and her heart lie, a good thought leadership strategy is built on authenticity. Like, it really is sort of what it is that drives you, what it is that makes you unique. So it's putting yourself out there in a very, I mean, vulnerable way.

Susan Friedmann [00:03:36]:

Oh, yes. That's a perfect example because you're right. I mean, she's sort of Become the poster child almost for vulnerability, and she displays her vulnerability so well. I mean, I've listened to so many of her talks, Yeah. It's amazing what she's willing to share. You know, we've got authors, they've written their book, and how they're looking for that something special. Often, would you say it's the message within the book might be the thought leadership.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:04:11]:

Yeah. It'll be something that is unique to you, something that resonates with your personal brand. So it's gonna be the content The book and authors are in such a fantastic position because to write a book, it takes deep thought. You can't just sort of jot it off And move on with your life. It's a you know, social captions can be deep or they can be quirky and fun, but a book takes considerable thought and Rumination and revision. And so I would say book authors are in an enviable position And that they've already done a lot of the work that they need to do in order to figure out what their core messages are and what they wanna share. You know, if you think about Tim Ferris in the 4-hour work week. Right? Like he didn't come up with that and then just sort of write an email and then become the 4 hour work week guy.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:04:58]:

Like, a ton of background work and sort of Homework went into becoming the 4 hour work week guy. And so authors have already sort of just thought their way around these problems. And For that leadership marketing is a way for them to break that up into sort of digestible chunks, Maybe in articles. I mean, what I do with articles, you can do it with short videos, with ways to bring that message to audiences in a smaller and more frequent package So that you start to become associated with some of the core messages from your work and your research or your experience or whatever it is that's the foundation for your manuscript.

Susan Friedmann [00:05:37]:

And it's usually your experience. Would you agree with that?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:05:41]:

It definitely has to be authentic to your personality and your experience. So I couldn't just choose A topic out of a hat and say, I wanna become a thought leader in in x. Right? It wouldn't resonate. It's just such an authentic Form of communication, it's hard to fake.

Susan Friedmann [00:05:58]:

So what about the characteristics of a good thought leader? How would you characterize them?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:06:06]:

With somebody who has a depth of experience. Right? As somebody who Has digested some truths and some sort of important lessons about the area that they want to lead in. Somebody who is confident in being themselves and putting themselves out there and themselves out there and not worrying too much about having every, you know, detailed sort of, like, Field tested or bulletproofed, you know, it really is about communicating. It's somebody who wants to give back, somebody who wants to keep the ladder down and help people Follow in their footsteps or put ideas out there that may be a little bit counterintuitive. They're gonna be new. So somebody who doesn't mind Being out in front of the conversation, who feels comfortable being the center of attention, who wants to be the one who holds the a space for us to have conversations. The term leader implies that you're not gonna just be sort of regurgitating the things you've heard from other places, but you're gonna be doing some original thinking and you're gonna put ideas out there that not everybody is going to agree with all the time. But If that's something that makes you uncomfortable, you know, that's something that you have to kind of wrestle with if you wanted to dive into a thought leadership program.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:07:16]:

There's been some really interesting data collected. Thought leadership as a marketing strategy has gotten so popular lately. Harris did this recent poll where, like, in a business context, 92% of executives said that they thought thought leadership was critical to building authority in the industry, but 66% said that the marketplace is just sort of glutted with uninteresting and Unremarkable content. So there's a lot of stuff passing as thought leadership out there, and it's not gonna get you where you wanna be The same way that real, substantive, sort of brave content is going to get you.

Susan Friedmann [00:07:57]:

What came up for me as you were saying that, Jenn, was that so many authors come to me and they're concerned about feeling like an imposter that they want to share this information, and they feel that it's original, But yet, they're sort of teetering on the edge of well, there's this sort of voice in their head a saying you're an imposter, and even the best of the best think this. So what's your comment on that?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:08:27]:

Oh my gosh. That imposter syndrome is so awful. And there have been studies on this too that the people who actually are more knowledgeable about certain subjects, about any subject. The more you know about a subject, the more you doubt yourself. Right? Like, that can be a really sort of slippery slope for people, Especially for authors who have been immersed in their subject matter for so long, you really get a feel for what you don't know. I would just recommend to authors, a, so you know that you're a subject matter expert because you've taken the time and you've taken the care To put together a manuscript to share your ideas with people. Anytime you're worried about whether or not you're the right person, just remember that By giving this of yourself, you're making other people not only able to understand what you know. You're not only sharing your own knowledge.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:09:19]:

You're leading by example and letting other people who have expertise know that it's safe. It's actually kind of fun to out there and put your ideas out there for an audience and get conversation starting. This giving back element of it is so important. If we don't have subject matter experts, if experts. If we don't have authors who have different point of view or different life experiences or coming at subjects from different ways, if they don't Have the courage to step up and to take the time and the resources to really share their expertise, then that knowledge is lost. The beautiful part about thought leadership is that as a marketing strategy, it's a beautiful sort of complement to your other kinds of marketing. Right? But then just as an idea, the idea that you're gonna give your expertise, you're gonna give your learning to the community in order to make the community a better place, I think it's just a sort of a gorgeous orientation and remembering that you do have things to give, and you don't have to be perfect In order to lead. You don't have to be, like, the world's authority on anything.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:10:22]:

You have to speak from your experience and your authority, And that's a really big blessing to your learning community, to your audiences, and to the community as a whole. Ex

Susan Friedmann [00:10:34]:

Woah. This is so rich. I really love it. I love the fact that this is just another marketing strategy. You gave us a few numbers with regard to the evidence that this marketing strategy actually works. Talk to us more about the format that thought leadership can take.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:10:55]:

It could be videos. It could be keynotes. There are a lot of different formats that your thought leadership could take. My personal favorite and my specialty are magazine or article length chunks of information. It could be that you publish this in your newsletter. It could be that you publish it on LinkedIn. It could be The business or the strategic trades, which is my specialty, the idea that it's more digestible and more frequent, books are amazing. And anyone who's Written or read a book knows that it's also a commitment.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:11:27]:

And so thought leadership in smaller chunks Is really suited to how we live our day to day. So you can easily read a 1,000 word article when you're hopping from 1 meeting to the next extra on your lunch hour or when you have a couple of extra minutes. And so it's a nice sort of introduction and a compliment to longer work. I also am a writer, so I'm partial to the written word. I know video and audio are very important, but I also just think that there's something about the act of Reading and writing that encourages deep thought and reflection, that really is a nice format for thought leadership.

Susan Friedmann [00:12:04]:

Yes. Of course. You know, as a writer, that's obviously the number one, and I love that 2. I think that is very worthwhile, and I always have. And even just the mere fact that people have a book on a particular subject Gives them enormous credibility as an expert in that field, especially when very few other people might have publications in that particular field. I was in the trade show industry for many years, And I was one of just a couple of people who had been published there. So that already helped me give me the leg up In terms of being seen as an expert. So I know that with many of our listeners too, that's the case Depending, obviously, on which niche that they specialize in.

Susan Friedmann [00:12:59]:

Talk to us about, Jenn, you write for magazines, a Trade publications. Where should authors go to look to get their work published in these different

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:13:13]:

publications. That's great question. I think your specific strategy should be tailored to your audience. So knowing where your readers are is really important. And then within that framework, figuring out, There are a lot of publications that have opportunities for guest writers. There are certain invitation only communities that you might Qualify for that come with some publishing perks. It just kinda depends on who you wanna reach and where those folks are. So For 1 person, an agricultural publication would be perfect, where for another person, that wouldn't really not fit the bill.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:13:48]:

So it all has to be Strategic to your specific needs and your specific content. You gotta find your people and then be yourself in front of them so that they can choose you and they can see you for who you are.

Susan Friedmann [00:14:00]:

So it's not necessarily the big names, you know, Forbes, Inc. Magazine. I know people often Say, oh, yeah. I've got to be in that. That's their goal. But that may or may not be the right audience to target. Would you agree?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:14:15]:

Exactly. Yeah. There are a lot of ways to get this right. That's the good news.

Susan Friedmann [00:14:20]:

Yeah. And you rightly said, if you're in a niche market, like, For instance, you mentioned agriculture. You know, there's certain publications there that would be right for you if that's the market that who you're targeting. When I was doing the trade show work, there were about a dozen different publications worldwide, And my goal was to be in each and every one of them. That was my goal. Now outside of that, nobody was really particularly interested in what I had to say, and that was okay because that wasn't that wasn't my audience. You know? So yeah.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:14:56]:

And the beautiful part about the trades is that it's A language that a subject matter expert already speaks. Right? So getting the right niche can be so important.

Susan Friedmann [00:15:07]:

And standing out from the crowd, that also helps you. Correct?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:15:12]:

A 100%. Yeah. Right now, With the number of people who are dabbling in thought leadership, the quality is really the differentiator. You know, maybe 10 years ago, the fact of Writing thought leadership would have been enough to separate you. But now given the amount of content out there, the bar is higher. But that's also a good news for authors because, Again, if you think about the legwork that goes into writing a nonfiction book, I would say that most authors have already done The background and the research, it's just a matter of figuring out how to present that, you know, at a more frequent pace in bite sized chunks The publishers are going to recognize as being a good service for their readers.

Susan Friedmann [00:15:55]:

And what fascinates me, and you and I discussed this earlier too, Was that our authors have this book which is chock full of articles and tips send, you know, their thought leadership, but yet sometimes they feel that they need to go elsewhere And sort of reinvent the wheel.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:16:17]:

Yeah. I think in the process of writing a book, you forget How smart you are about your subject because you're with it day in, day out through who knows how many revisions. And it's easy to just sort of discount how much work you've done and the utility of that work in different Formats in different you know, to repurpose work that you've already done is not lazy or cheating. It's a way of amplifying your work So you can reach more people. You can reach them through different doorways. It's very complimentary. So you don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time.

Susan Friedmann [00:16:52]:

Yes. I mean, as you were saying that, you know, I was thinking this this curse of knowledge is that you think that just because You know something that everybody else knows it.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:17:04]:

Right. So What am I

Susan Friedmann [00:17:06]:

telling you that is new? It always makes me laugh. I mean, I fall for that too. I think, oh, you know, I find this easy to do. And then people are like, But I don't. And I'm like, you don't.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:17:19]:

Yeah. They're like, that's kind of magic, and you're like, oh, yeah. Okay. Alright.

Susan Friedmann [00:17:24]:

We need to be reminded of that, that people don't necessarily know what we know. Right. What are the a that you find that authors make when it comes to writing or even wanting to present their thought leadership.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:17:41]:

I think one of the biggest mistakes is to try to sound like you know what you're talking about. Inauthenticity is really clear and obvious in a long form article. If you're anxious or you're worried or you think you need to sound like, You know, thought leader or somebody else who's popular but isn't you, it's going to sound wrong. It's gonna sound weird, and it will actually Do you a disservice because it'll present you in a way it's not authentic to, you know, your own expertise and your vision. So you have to be it. Grounded and centered in who you are and what you know and what you have to offer. That's number 1. I think a second Mistake would be to go in without a strategy or without a plan.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:18:25]:

You know, successful writers of periodic thought leadership Have a strategy. Like, they know what they want to tell audiences. When I work with clients, we always do 3 content pillars. Right. We're like, okay. What is the overall goal? Who is it that you are? What is it that you want to give? And then how do we do that in these, like, 3 very specific channels of information. People forget. Everyone is so swamped with information.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:18:52]:

You have to hear it more than once. So you might feel like you're repeating yourself. You might feel like, oh, we've already covered this. But your audience you might feel like, oh, we've already covered this, but your audience probably hasn't encountered it. And if they have encountered it. It probably hasn't sunk into the degree that you think it has. Like, it's back to that sort of like what I know everybody else has to know kind of thinking. It's not like that at all.

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:19:13]:

So good thought leadership takes people from point a to point, you know, g or h in a really methodical, really strategic kind of way that builds something rather than just being sort of one off, like, attention grabbing, headline y, clickbaity articles because I think you'll lose people right away if you don't have that quality. It'll be really clear. And then a final one would be inconsistency. If you publish 9 articles in a quarter and then no articles for 2 years, you're not gonna establish a reputation. People are creatures of habit. So if you wanna be a thought leader and you wanna build an audience or a marketing strategy around that, you have to be consistent. If it's once a month, if it's once a quarter, if it's Once a week, like, whatever works for you, but thinking about it in a way that you can be predictable so that people will know what they're getting when they're coming to you, and they'll know when they can come to you for more.

Susan Friedmann [00:20:08]:

That's interesting. And I know we've had many guests who talk about being consistent, and you've given us, you know, different timelines. Is there a rule of thumb that it's better to once a month versus once every quarter? What's your thinking on there?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:20:27]:

I personally like once a month. I think it's a night I think once a quarter is not quite enough. And then if you're working with team that is doing your socials or newsletters or other kinds of content, once a month gives you a really nice cadence For them to repurpose and sort of amplify and get things rolling around in your channels and then doing the same the next month with something that's Definitely strategically aligned. Maybe even building on your last month's article. It's a nice I think once a month is a great cadence. I think once a week is maybe a lot, Unless you have something that's super timely or if you're, like, really aggressively trying to build your thought leadership, like, if you're doing as part of your launch strategy for your book, You might try and do something that's a little bit more accelerated. But I think for most people, slow and steady wins the race.

Susan Friedmann [00:21:18]:

What about The basics. I know that often we see this, the dummies books and the idiot's guide books. I mean, Is there an element of thought leadership there, or is that too basic when we're thinking about thought leadership?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:21:36]:

Well, it depends on your goals. Right? If it is your goal to reach people who are considering a certain field Or who are brand new to a certain topic, then your 1 on ones, your idiots guides are gonna be the perfect Sort of level. If you want to speak to an audience who is expert, But maybe trying to solve a specific kind of industry problem, then you're gonna want to write to that level or to Speak to that level. So that really gets back to the strategy, like, who are you talking to? We're never talking to everyone in the world when we're doing any kind of publishing. No matter what, we always have an audience in mind. And so thinking about who your audience is, what they already know, what they need to know, why they need to know it, And then talking to them on that level is really important, and it's gonna just depend on your strategic goals.

Susan Friedmann [00:22:32]:

Yeah. That's poignant because, yes, you're absolutely right. It's like, Who are you aiming for? I mean, if you're aiming at c suite, you're locating at a whole different level than somebody, as you rightly said, who is Learning a new skill or a new topic, so your approach would be very different with regard to that. I love that. Jenn, I'm sure that you have sparked a lot of interest from our listeners. So now it's your turn to tell us How can people find out more about you and the services you offer?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:23:08]:

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I love to talk with people about this. So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Jenn Hemmingsen, or you can email me at [email protected]. I'm always happy to have virtual coffees with folks and just talk to them about that leadership. I think it's a really underutilized resource, and I think it does a lot of public good. So that's where my passion is.

Susan Friedmann [00:23:30]:

It comes out. I mean, you definitely talk with so much passion, and this is your thought leadership about thought leadership. I think that's brilliant. I love it. So, Jenn, as you know, we always leave our listeners with a golden nugget. What are your words of wisdom that you'd like to leave our listeners with?

Jenn Hemmingsen [00:23:51]:

I would just say if you are listening and you have a manuscript in progress Or a book idea or a book that you're actively pitching or marketing, you actually are a thought leader. Consider this as a strategy, but definitely be thinking of yourself as a resource to other people out there. It's a great way to give and also receive.

Susan Friedmann [00:24:13]:

Yes. And you started off with that whole idea of thought leadership being an opportunity to share your expertise. And so You've sort of you know, the book ends. We're still sharing. That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom And your thought leadership in this subject, I really appreciate it. And listeners, this is another episode. I'd go back and listen to it again because there's real nuggets of wisdom here that Jenn has shared.

By the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call, And together, we'll brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, And it's time you got the return you were hoping for. So go to BrainstormWithSusan.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas You can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

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