Susan Friedmann [00:00:30]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. 

 

Today, my special guest is Caelan Huntress. He's the creative director of Stellar Platforms, a digital marketing agency that helps experts and entrepreneurs set up smart marketing systems. He's an American digital nomad Living in New Zealand, and he spent 10 years running an online business while traveling the world with his young family. 

 

Caelan is a dynamic speaker, trainer, and business coach who combines his skills and a theatrical Performer and technical geek to make compelling virtual experiences. Caelan is a bestselling author in his own right with his latest book, “Marketing Yourself.”

 

A National Speaker Association colleague all the way from New Zealand Living out our tomorrow, Caelan, it's a pleasure to welcome you back to the show as this week's guest expert and mentor.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:01:49]:

Thanks, Susan. I'm looking forward to this conversation.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:01:52]:

I remember last time I was telling you we spoke and we talked about testimonials, and that was a great interview. But This week, we are going to focus on marketing because I know it's something that our listeners would love to love. I'd love to know how to do better. And now you've written this incredible book, Marketing Yourself. There's something that stood out for me, Kalyn, in the book, and I mentioned this to you before the show, was a phrase that you put together. Marketing is risky if not done well, I would love you to elaborate on that.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:02:32]:

Yeah. That sounds great. Marketing can feel like you're playing the slot machines. You throw a whole bunch of money at it, and you hope you get some results. And that could be really disheartening when what you wanna do is just write the next book and focus on producing more pages, and then you have Stop and go figure out how to sell this stuff. Marketing can turn into a black hole for a lot of authors Because they don't know what to do, and so they're throwing darts at the wall and hoping that something sticks. But what I find is that when people can find just 1 or 2 good marketing strategies that gets them the result that they want, Then they can tune out all the other options that are out there. And when another marketing bro shows up and says, well, this is the new way to build an audience and make 6 figures.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:03:28]:

You can ignore it because you have something that's working. But the risk, Susan, is that if what you're doing isn't working, then you're open to try whatever somebody else says Because you don't know what's gonna work. And so somebody says, hey. Well, you should try this new technique, and you jump in and you try it. And before you know it, You've wasted another 3 months 1,000 of dollars, and you still haven't increased your audience. And so that's why I say it's risky if it's not done well is it can bubble up your time and your money. That's why it's so important to find something that works.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:04:04]:

That's so profound because you're absolutely right. And, I mean, I've done it myself, I know, years back, and suffer from that shiny object syndrome.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:04:15]:

That is so easy because as you said, somebody comes along and says, oh, you're gonna make a fortune doing this. You just have to follow My simple, easy blueprint, technique, method, whatever they call it, the system. But that's not the case because it may not be something I want to do, I feel comfortable doing. So let's go into that finding something that you enjoy doing. How do we even go about finding that?

 

Caelan Huntress [00:04:47]:

Well, I like to say that marketing is a series of failed experiments, That the path to finding the marketing that's right for you, that gets you results, and that you enjoy enough that you can continue to do it indefinitely, It requires experimentation. And your 1st marketing strategy isn't likely to be the right one. It takes time. Julie Stoyan was the chief marketing officer of ClickFunnels when she said, Most sales funnels don't work when you launch them. It takes 2, 5, 7, or 10 tries to get it right. And she was the sales funnel master. And she broke the news to people who thought, oh, the sales funnels. You know, I I set up a landing page and put in an email automation, and then I get subscribers, and then I sell them my stuff.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:05:39]:

A lot of people would set up their first one, which is, like, you know, it's a lot of effort. You gotta figure out how to do all this stuff and put all this infrastructure together. And then, you know, like, at the end of it, you don't get the results. And people don't know that that's common. Professional marketers also don't know what's going to work. And it's only through experimentation And trying something and iterating on it that you're eventually gonna land on something that works for you and something that you enjoy. So I guess the best advice I could give, Susan, is to be guided by what works for you. If your gut tells you, this doesn't feel right to me, I don't wanna market myself this way, There's a resistance there that's going to be more difficult to overcome over time.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:06:23]:

But if you can find a technique that feels right, Where it brings you more energy instead of takes energy away, then that's a clue in your experiment. And so trying a bunch of different things and figuring out what you like and how you like to do it, that's a big part of marketing.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:06:43]:

And you and I are both members of the National Speakers Association. And it's interesting that you say what you said because I recall that when I started with the National Speakers Association years ago, it was all about keynote speaking. If you weren't a keynote speaker, you weren't really a speaker. I was like, you know, this Scares me. I don't enjoy this. This isn't what I want to do is get up and talk for 45 minutes. I really want to spend 3 hours, 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 years with somebody. I really want to get in deep and dig down and work on What really is beneath what's going on and how can they do their job better? It really took a long time Before I allowed myself to say, you know what? I'm a trainer.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:07:35]:

I'm a coach. I much prefer that than being speaker or motivational, inspirational speaker. So, yes, admitting to yourself what really feels comfortable and what vibes with who you are is critical.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:07:52]:

 

And you only find that out by experimenting.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:07:56]:

Correct. We've got to experiment, and there were a lot of naysayers too. As I said, You weren't a real speaker if you weren't doing keynotes.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:08:05]:

Well, keep in mind, Susan, those naysayers, they have a vested interest in promoting their point of view. Because a speaker coach who coaches other speakers on how to create a 45-minute keynote, they're gonna tell you That a 45 minute keynote is the only way to make it as a speaker because they have a vested interest in you thinking that way. And that's something to be cautious of when you're hearing marketing advice is what's the person's goal here? Do they want me to believe this because they're trying to sell me something? And I think that's why people are always on guard with marketing is because they know there's an ulterior motive. And it's why authors don't want to market themselves because they don't want people to think that there's an ulterior motive behind what they're doing, but there is. There always is when we're marketing ourselves. How close that ulterior motive is to being in integrity is totally up to you. Every author can decide how closely to their authentic goals their marketing is. And some people choose to market something because it makes money, and that's okay.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:09:18]:

But it means that we need to be more cautious about their advice. Other people choose to be more authentic to their core values. And sometimes, it's unfortunate, but sometimes, that isn't the most a profitable path. And so deciding how far to lean in either direction, it's really a matter of style, and everybody gets to choose. Your own marketing experiments might reveal that you're leaning too close to authenticity, and so you have to be more promotional in nature. And I know that that can feel difficult, especially for creatives who just wanna focus on doing their craft. But there's a commercial side to the craft. You have to sell what you're doing if you want to continue doing it because that selling, that marketing, That's what funds you to be able to continue doing your work.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:10:11]:

And what I'd like to add to that, and I know We've talked about it, and I've talked to many of my guests, is you've gotta feel the passion. There's gotta be love behind it. Yeah. And Mhmm. Your heart and soul have to be in it because if they're not, you're not going to get the results because it's like what you put in is what you're going to get out.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:10:33]:

Yeah. It's the invisible fuel that keeps

 

Susan Friedmann [00:10:36]:

it going. Oh, the invisible fuel. Oh, I love that. That's beautiful. So let's go back to the book. I got us sidetracked here, but the basis of the book is your 4 cornerstones of your personal platform. And I think perhaps, Maybe a little bit of what we've been discussing now may fall into one of those buckets of your personal platform. But talk to us about what are those cornerstones and why are they so important in terms of this whole Concept of marketing yourself.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:11:10]:

Yeah. Well, you know, everybody who has something to say and something to sell, They have a personal platform, and that platform, it enables you to see over distance, And it enables your audience to see you. And the higher your platform is, the easier it is for people to see you. And there are 4 levels of platforms. And the first level is a soapbox. And anybody who has something to say can get up on their soapbox and say it. But it's not until you have something to sell that it becomes a commercial enterprise. And so the 2nd level of a platform is the showroom.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:11:56]:

And a showroom is great Because you can support a business and fund a lifestyle from a showroom. But the problem with the showroom, Susan, is that it has a ceiling. There's only so many people you can fit into a showroom. And so what a lot of authors need to do is they need to get to that 3rd level, which is the stage. And on the stage level, your systems do the selling for you. This is the level where you've exhausted your existing audience, And you have to go find other audiences to share your message with and shine your light. And by the time that an author or speaker gets up to this stage level. That's usually where they start really getting traction, where they're achieving their lifetime goals.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:12:41]:

And some of them go to the 4th level of platform, which is the stadium, when your moves move the market. And the stadium level of platform, it's exhilarating because you can see so far, but there's also farther to fall. And so these 4 levels of platform, the soapbox, the showroom, the stage, and the stadium, they all rely On the same 4 cornerstones, there's what you say and what you sell, and those are your external cornerstones. Those are the cornerstones that people can see when they look at your platform. But there's 2 cornerstones at the back of your platform, and they're just as important, And that's your strategy and your systems. And if any one of these cornerstones is weak or is lower than the others, then your platform is always gonna be leaning in that direction. That one cornerstone is always gonna be dominating your attention. And so I'm sure your listeners can identify right now which one of these 4 cornerstones is always giving them the most grief.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:13:50]:

It might be what they say because they don't have their messaging right. It might be what they sell Because they're not making as much money as they want to. It might be their strategy because they can't figure out how they fit Into the marketplace or it might be their systems because they can't automate the things they want to. And when I'm working with a client, Susan, I often recommend that we focus on the weakest cornerstone first. Because if you can get that cornerstone up to the level of all the others, then your platform gets stability. You can stand firmly on your platform, and you're not gonna Slide off to one side again and again and again. And if you wanna elevate your platform and go through the levels from the soapbox to the showroom, From the stage to the stadium, the process is the same. You build up your cornerstones.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:14:46]:

You could spend 3 months focusing on your strategy. Build that cornerstone up higher and spend 3 months working on your systems and get that cornerstone higher. And if you spend 3 months on each cornerstone within a year, your platform can elevate to the next level. And so the way I organize my book, Marketing Yourself, is I focus on all 4 of those cornerstones. The book isn't you know, you don't have to read it from beginning to end. It's more like a choose your own adventure style book. You can say, you know, I'm really not firm on my positioning. I don't know what I should say, and there's 4 chapters on the positioning cornerstone that you can read through.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:15:29]:

If if your a strategy is weak. You can just skip ahead to one of the strategy chapters, and I have 4 chapters for each of these 4 cornerstones. and that's the 16 chapters that makes up my book, Marketing Yourself.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:15:41]:

That's brilliant, and I love it. I mean, you're demonstrating each one of them As you go. I know for me, and I've talked to you about it, that my weakest link are my systems. Anytime somebody says, well, here's a system you should use, I'm like, yes, and I'd like to make it mine. So I try and reinvent the wheel. Have you seen that done a few times?

 

Caelan Huntress [00:16:07]:

All the time. It's actually the most common deficiency with authors and speakers, Susan, is the system's cornerstone, Which is one of the reasons why I work so well with authors and speakers because I'm while I'm also an author and speaker myself, I'm primarily a systems guy. I'm a digital nerd, and figuring out the email automation sequences to hook into a a CRM and a website form. I love that stuff. And so I've partnered with hall of fame speakers and best selling authors as their back end Marketing guy. With my digital marketing agency, Stellar Platforms, I often help authors and speakers figure out the systems that enable them to just Focus on sharing their message so that they can do the work that they want to do and outsource the technical work that they don't like to somebody like me.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:57]:

That's a brilliant strategy. I love your strategy and your positioning. I mean, all the things that you say. This is your stadium then.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:17:06]:

No. I'm not at the stadium level. I'd say I'm at the stage because my own newsletter list is not enough to sustain my business. I have to go find other people's audiences to share my message with, like I'm doing here. You know? I do a lot of podcast interviews. I give free workshops to group coaching programs that have a membership of authors, coaches, and speakers. I like the stage level. The stadium level? You know, I've worked with a number of stadium level platforms before, and usually, they have to have a team That's large enough to sustain the level of activity that they produce.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:17:47]:

And I don't know if I'd be comfortable at the stadium level. I've seen, You know, the challenges and difficulties of all 4 of these levels, and the stadium is like imagine being on top of a mountain. The wind that you face on top of a mountain, that's kinda what happens with a stadium. You're facing such velocity in front of you that you have to be strong and firm because it can blow you right off if you're not careful. And I might get to that level for a time, but I don't know if I would choose to stay there. I like the stage level myself.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:18:24]:

Yeah. I would agree with you. It scares me. Yeah. I don't want to be in that position. I never have. I think that's part of, you know, Why I've built myself my little niche, and I'm happy playing in that sandbox. Let's talk about it.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:18:40]:

Stakes because we all make them. And I know that you've witnessed so many that authors, entrepreneurs, speakers, coaches, and trainers have made, let's talk about 1 or 2 of the big common ones that you see.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:18:59]:

Well, I'd say the biggest mistake that people make, Susan, is they see somebody Using a tactic, and they think that'll work for me. And they jump in and they try that tactic, and it doesn't work. And so they see somebody else Using a different tactic, and they jump to that one, and they try that. And it's really common for people to jump from technique to technique. But what they don't know is a lot of times when somebody tries a technique, they're experimenting. They don't know if it's gonna work either. I got big into webinars in 2019, which was great timing because when the pandemic hit in 2020, Webinars suddenly became the only way that people could gather. And so the pandemic was actually very good to me because I had acquired all this expertise in virtual events.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:19:52]:

And so I taught, certification courses to other public speakers about how to give better virtual presentations. And that worked great for a while. And then the pandemic ended, and people started getting in person again. And it stopped working. And just as it stopped working, I saw a lot of people launching their new webinar funnels and holding virtual master classes. And they said, why isn't anybody showing up? And it's because the market had changed. There were a lot of people like me. I contributed to this problem who said, wow.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:20:25]:

Webinars are really great. You can work from home, Do everything from your own home office and have dozens or hundreds of people come to your events. And while it worked, it was great. But then the market changed. However, there were a lot of people who still heard all those stale messages And said, boy, I'm gonna try that, and they had a failed experiment. And so I'd say this is the biggest mistake I see, Susan, is that people take Internet advice that has gone stale. What worked 2 years ago and has great SEO because it's been 2 years On somebody's website, that article that you're reading, that might no longer be relevant. And so that's the biggest mistake I see is somebody taking old advice that isn't working in the marketplace right now.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:21:16]:

And you say that as I'm about to launch a masterclass.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:21:21]:

It doesn't mean it can't work. I doubt. Means that it has to be done differently, that we can't get the dozens of new people That we used to get to every event. Now it's harder. It's difficult. It is.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:21:33]:

And I totally acknowledge that because you hear the Conversions and the number of people who sign up versus the number of people who show up, that percentage is definitely going down. And I'm very realistic about expectations there. However, you still need to Get out there and be seen, be heard in as many places as you can. What else should be be Thinking about paying attention to.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:22:05]:

I think another mistake I see a lot of authors make is once they write the book, It'll sell itself.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:22:13]:

Mhmm.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:22:14]:

And they don't have to do any promotion, and they don't have to do any marketing. I often hear people say, if I could just hire somebody To do the sales and marketing for me so that I can do the writing, that would be great. Then there's nobody that's going to care as much about a book as the author. And there's nobody who's better qualified to talk about a book And to market a book than the author. And so I think the mistake people make with their book is thinking that Just because it's been published, people are gonna read it. But people need a reason to take out their credit card and buy it And take the time to sit down and open it up. And figuring out that reason, why would somebody say, you know what? I'm gonna Put aside an hour on the weekend to sit down and read your book. Why would they do that? Figuring that reason out is much more than the latest shiny object digital marketing technique.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:23:15]:

The strategy behind why people would take the time of their day to read your book, figuring that out is a lot more lucrative than fiddling with your email automation systems.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:23:28]:

It's so funny because, literally, the call that I had With a client previous to getting on this recording, I was like, I think you must have been listening into that conversation Because pretty much the exact same words I was saying about that people write the book, And then somehow, there's this expectation, put it on Amazon, do a few email posts or social media posts, and You're gonna be rich and famous, and they get very disappointed when that doesn't happen. Yeah. Calin, I know that our listeners would love to find out more about you, about the book. What would you like to tell them?

 

Caelan Huntress [00:24:15]:

I'd say the best way that they could learn more about my work is to go to marketing yourself book.com/ Free chapter. For subscribing to my newsletter, they can download the 1st chapter of my book for free. The 1st chapter is about your personal statement. It's sorta like an elevator pitch, but it's shorter. It's more condensed. It's something that you can fit onto a sticky note, and I give a formula for creating your own personal statement so that you can share in 1 sentence who you are, what you do, and why you're amazing. If your listeners go to marketing yourself book.com/freechapter, then they can download that chapter of my book and make their own personal statement.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:25:00]:

Beautiful. Thank you. That's very generous. And I'll put that link in the show notes So that if anybody's traveling on the treadmill or gardening or whatever they're doing while they're listening to this, That they'll be able to get that URL. And as you know, we love our guests To share a golden nugget. So what would you like to leave our listeners with, particularly in terms of Marketing Yourself.

 

Caelan Huntress [00:25:36]:

Well, the biggest challenge I see with, experts and entrepreneurs, Susan, that are marketing themselves is imposter syndrome. This idea that, you know, they don't really deserve to claim this authority that they're trying to claim. And the golden nugget I think I'd like to share is that everybody who has done anything worthwhile Faces impostor syndrome. John Steinbeck once said, "I'm not a writer. I've been fooling myself and other people." Maya Angelou, after winning 3 Emmys and the National Book Award, she said, "after my 11th book, I thought, uh-oh. They're gonna find me out. I've run a game on everybody, and they're gonna find me out now."

 

Caelan Huntress [00:26:22]:

Even Albert Einstein said that he was very uncomfortable with the exaggerated esteem that his life work withheld and felt compelled to think of himself as an involuntary swindler. So if you feel imposter syndrome, I want you to know you're in good company.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:26:40]:

Very good company. I believe Oprah said that, Meryl Streep, Tom Hanks. I think the higher you get in terms of your own celebrity status, there's this time where you suddenly think, uh-oh. Is this really me? Oh, that's great wisdom, and thank you for sharing all this great wisdom. I think there's a lot more. I believe we're gonna have another podcast interview if you're willing because I think we need to dig deeper into some of these concepts, some of the systems, the strategies that would work for our authors. In the meantime, they'll go to your URL and find out more. So thank you.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:27:30]:

And listeners, If your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. 

Go to BrainstormWithSusan. com to schedule your free call. 

 And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, Here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

Go to  https://marketingyourselfbook.com/freechapter/ to download a free chapter from Caelan's bestselling book "Marketing Yourself"