Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest is Nikki Rauch, the CEO of Sales Maven. She's a sales strategist and coach with more than 25 years of sales experience. Nikki specializes in transforming the often misunderstood art of selling into an authentic success driven process. Certified in neurolinguistic programming, Nikki teaches tangible skills that can give you massive results. Working with elite organizations such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Hewlett Packard, and NASA, Nikki's expertise is unmatched, earning her numerous top producer awards. Her dynamic keynotes and workshops offer clients game changing results, and entrepreneurs and small business owners turn to Nikki to master authentic sales techniques.
Nikki, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Nikki Rausch [00:01:20]:
Thank you for having me, Susan. I'm very excited to have this conversation with you.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:24]:
Nikki, sales is one of those subjects that my authors are not excited about. They have this feeling that, it's almost like a dirty word, and they just resist anything that smacks to them odd sales. So if an author comes to you and says anything like that, what would you say to them?
Nikki Rausch [00:01:51]:
I would say, I totally understand. And chances are, that person has been on the receiving end of somebody trying to do sales to them, and that feels manipulative and gross. And sales actually is something you do with another person. It's not something you do to another person. And when you can shift your mindset and start to approach sales as an opportunity to have conversations, an opportunity to find out if somebody would benefit from something that you have to offer. And then if you have permission, you can offer a suggestion or an opportunity or a book or a way to work with you that feels really good to you and to the other person. When you start approaching sales from a with perspective, it will completely shift the way you have those conversations. It will shift the way you feel about the conversation.
Nikki Rausch [00:02:47]:
It'll also shift the way the other person engages with you because none of us want people to do stuff to us. We'd rather be in conversation where it's with conversation. Right? We don't have to talk at people. We talk with people.
Susan Friedmann [00:03:04]:
Yes. Very much so. As you said, I think many of us have experienced that sales approach that is sort of hate to use the used car salesman, but that's what people refer to. I mean, they have such a poor car salesman these days. I mean, they have such a bad rap because of historically how they're portrayed. And we don't want to feel as if we are pushing our book. You know, Hey, I've got a book. Will you buy it? No.
Susan Friedmann [00:03:37]:
Right.
Nikki Rausch [00:03:38]:
I think when you start to approach it as, if you have taken the time to share your thought leadership and put it into a book format, not everybody is gonna be a reader. Right? Not everybody is gonna benefit from what your thought leadership brings to the table. There are people out there that absolutely will benefit from it. But if they don't know about it, they're missing out on the opportunity to gain that benefit. Think about when somebody has brought something into your awareness that you had no awareness about, And then, all of a sudden, there's this awareness around something and you're like, oh, my gosh. I'm so grateful to that person for sharing this with me because, now, something in my life or my business has shifted. And we've all, I think, hopefully, experienced what that's like. When you're in these conversations and you're strategic about the conversation and you put the relationship first, everything that I teach is built on the foundation of rapport.
Nikki Rausch [00:04:37]:
So you have to have rapport with somebody, the relationship comes before the sale, then it becomes a real conversation. And it's like you're sharing something with somebody, and they can choose to benefit from it or not. And you don't have to be attached to anybody buying your book. What you are attached to is being useful in a conversation, offering value, being a resource.
Susan Friedmann [00:05:03]:
Yeah. And what came to mind as you were saying that, Nikki, was the idea that if somebody isn't interested, there's this tendency to think, It's personal. You're rejecting me. You know, You're rejecting your book and you're rejecting me, or you're rejecting what I'm talking about. And it's getting over that. I think there's an element of that fear of rejection that's built into all of this as well. What are your thoughts on that?
Nikki Rausch [00:05:31]:
Years ago, I was having a conversation with a good friend of mine, and she was interviewing for a position that had a sales component. She had a background in marketing, and there was a sales component to this position she was interviewing for. So she asked me, can I kinda pick your brain, Nikki, and ask you some questions and help prep me for this interview? And while we were talking and I was giving her some insight, she said, you know what makes you so good at sales, Nikki? And I was like, I love a compliment. So I'm, like, leaning in. I'm like, what? What do you think makes me good at sales? She said, you're so good at rejection. I nearly lost it. It looks like somebody punched me in the stomach and took my breath away. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? What do you mean rejection? And she's like, you know, when people say no to you, you're so good at handling rejection.
Nikki Rausch [00:06:20]:
And I was like, oh, yeah. I don't think of a no as rejection. Like, to me, they're 2 different things. And the analogy that I'll share here for a listener that might be feeling that way is let's say you go out and you have a really delightful meal at a restaurant and the meal is so satisfying. Let's say that your waiter comes by at the end of the meal and offers you the chance to look at the dessert menu. And you think to yourself, gosh, you know, I love dessert, but I'm so satisfied. So I'm gonna pass tonight, but thank you for the offer. The waiter doesn't go back to the kitchen and say to the people in the kitchen, like, can you believe that brat out there? Like, I offered her dessert and she rejected me.
Nikki Rausch [00:07:03]:
No. They just offered you something and you said no. Thank you. If you offer your book to somebody and they say, oh, not for me. No. Thank you. Think of it more as like, you're just being a good waiter, frankly. Because if the waiter comes by and just slides the check on your table and doesn't stop, doesn't even mention dessert, don't you sometimes feel a little bit like, oh, I guess they're trying to turn our table, like, they want us to leave? They didn't even offer us dessert.
Nikki Rausch [00:07:32]:
Even if you're not gonna get dessert, we still like to be offered it. When you start approaching sales as this, like, I'm just being of service. I'm doing my due diligence, and people can definitely take advantage of it if they'd like to, and they can decline. And I'm not attached to it one way or the other. I'm just attached to being of service and being useful in a conversation.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:55]:
And that's so important, I think, that whole idea of being of service. And it's so funny because we've been in situations where the waiter hasn't offered us dessert, and we're like, oh. And you're right. We just want to see the menu even if we say no. No, thank you.
Nikki Rausch [00:08:10]:
That's right. And sometimes you might not even pick dessert that time, but the next time you go to that restaurant, you might be thinking to yourself, maybe we'll share a meal tonight because their dessert menu looked fantastic, and I'd like to leave room for it. Sometimes, a no is just a not yet. Sometimes, somebody's not ready for your book, maybe because they've just downloaded a bunch of other books, or maybe they're right in the middle of learning something, and they're not ready to take on something else. But that doesn't mean that they'll never read your book. You don't know that. They don't know that yet. Sometimes, just by putting it in front of them, it's that first touch point for them to essentially look at it and go, interesting, not for me right now.
Nikki Rausch [00:08:52]:
So it's just a it's just a not yet. I have a background in neuro linguistic programming, and we learn about commencer strategy. And I teach about commencer strategy in there. Every single person you come into contact with, including yourself, by the way, has what's known as a convincer strategy. A convincer strategy is a certain number of times we'll say no to something before we'll say yes. Now, marketing companies, they know this. Right? Ad people on all your social media platforms, they understand commencer strategy. Because I'll bet if you're somebody who does scroll any kind of social media platform, you've seen an ad for something.
Nikki Rausch [00:09:30]:
And maybe the first time you saw it, you thought that seems dumb. And then you see it again and you go, why would anybody want that? And then you see the ad again. And then pretty soon you're starting to think, I wonder how I would use that. Next thing you know, you're buying it. They've hit your commencer strategy. Certain number of times you said no to something before you said yes. Now you don't wanna be like the little kid in the store, like, begging your mom, like, can I have it? Can I have it? You know, we're not like, buy my book. Buy my book.
Nikki Rausch [00:09:57]:
Buy my book. That's not what I'm talking about. But you don't know what somebody's commencer strategy is. And, frankly, they probably don't know what it is. They probably can't tell you the number. Your job is to just put it out there and make it available. So that when the person decides for themselves, now is the time. Then your book or your offer or whatever it is, is there for them to choose in that moment? Yes.
Nikki Rausch [00:10:24]:
Now is the time. The time is right. This is why you don't wanna miss the opportunity to plant the seed, to put it in front of somebody because they might have to say no 1, 2, 20 times before they say yes.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:39]:
Again, what went through my mind, Nikki, was that I've been in the speaking training business also the similar length of time you have. And there have been clients who, well, I say rejected, but they said no. And 2, 3 years later, they came back and said, You know, we're ready for you now.
Nikki Rausch [00:11:00]:
Yeah. When you put the relationship first, when you build rapport with people, you leave the door open for them to come back when they're ready. But if somebody says like, no, I'm not interested in reading your book. And you've take it as rejection, and that shows up in any part of the way you interact with the person. Even when they are ready, they're not gonna come back and read your book. They're gonna go find another book on the topic and read the other person's because they didn't feel any kind of, like, weird vibe from this person of, like, I said no to this person, and they reacted badly. Because we've all been on the receiving end, I think, most of us, of saying no to somebody and then really reacting poorly. I actually had somebody hang up on me one time when I said, like, her offer wasn't the right offer for me.
Nikki Rausch [00:11:49]:
And I said it in a really kind way, and I meant it. I was being authentic, and it just wasn't the right thing for me. And I said, no. She was super offended, and she hung up on me. Now do you think that when I did actually have a need for what she was offering, that I went back to her? Heck no. I went to somebody new because I didn't have that weird thing of, like, well, I definitely don't wanna give her my money. She was so weird about it last time.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:14]:
It's funny how things stick. And as you say, sometimes we have rapport with people and sometimes we don't. And it's the ones that we don't that, as you say, we're going to go somewhere else if and when we need what it is that they're offering. I love this idea of the convince a strategy. I've not heard that one before. Talk to us more about this idea of using neurolinguistic programming as this sort of different approach to selling. Talk to us more about that.
Nikki Rausch [00:12:45]:
And in case anybody's not familiar with the term neurolinguistic programming, just to be really clear, it's the study of communication. And it shows up you know, you can apply the NLP term to it. It shows up in behavioral economics. It shows up in psychology, sociology. Like, it's the combination of communication, right, and the way that we communicate. So neuro, the way we process information in our brains. Linguistics is language, the way you speak to others, the way others speak to you, and also any internal dialogue you've got going on. That's the linguistic part.
Nikki Rausch [00:13:17]:
And the programming part is about habits and patterns. The way I approach sales and the way that I teach sales and bring this into my clients to benefit them is it's learning how to, frankly, add flexibility to your behavior, to make it easier for the other person to be in conversation with you. It's not your job to convince somebody to buy from you. So when I spoke about convince our strategy, you might remember that I said it's them deciding that their convince our strategy has been hit. That's a decision they make. Your job isn't to try to show up and convince somebody to change their mind or convince them to buy from you because that is where the manipulative, like, gross used car salesman thing comes into place. But when you can show up and add flexibility to your behavior, it allows for you to make it easier for the person to be in conversation, to be open to hearing what it is that you have to offer, to be more revealing because they're more comfortable with you in what is important to them. And until you know what's important to somebody, what their need is, what their problem they're looking to solve is, you really shouldn't be selling to them.
Nikki Rausch [00:14:27]:
Because if you don't know what's important to them, what they need, what problem they're struggling with, how could you possibly add a solution or offer a solution that would solve any kind of a problem if you don't know what it is? Your job is to show up, make it easy to be in conversation, be strategic in the conversation, and then see, do I have permission to put this in front of somebody? Do they have a need? Are they open to hearing my offer? And do I even have an offer that meets their need? Once you can identify those things, the conversation goes, like, more smooth. It's a more natural way to have a conversation with somebody versus feeling like, okay. I've got to show up and sell, and that means I need to be on and I need to perform. That's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
Susan Friedmann [00:15:12]:
No pressure.
Nikki Rausch [00:15:12]:
I would say, like, you don't wanna be the monkey in the conversation and you don't wanna be the person who's like monkey dance. No. It's a relationship. It's conversation. It's actually a balance of power. So the way I bring NLP into my work is I teach my clients how to be more flexible in the conversation, how to take their cues from the other person, how to pay attention to the words somebody uses, how to ask questions in a strategic way, and then how to ask permission to move to the next step. And this is where, you know, I teach people, like, what to say and how to say it, but there's no real script for it. It's learning to have conversation and be strategic about it, really, is what it is.
Nikki Rausch [00:15:53]:
And my all time favorite quote, which I think is a really good example of what I teach is, blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape. I don't want anybody to go into a sales conversation and leave it feeling bent out of shape. I don't want that for your client, and I definitely don't want it for you.
Susan Friedmann [00:16:11]:
Hope you've got, like, bumper stickers or something with that because that's beautiful.
Nikki Rausch [00:16:16]:
Thank you.
Susan Friedmann [00:16:17]:
And it's funny because I wrote down sales script, and I was going to say to you, Well, do you believe in sales scripts? But you answered that. You knew what I was going to ask you before I even asked it. So
Nikki Rausch [00:16:30]:
I will say, I do actually provide scripts to my clients, but only from the place of giving them an example. Because if you're showing up and you go like, I'm just gonna read this script. Well, now it just sounds like you're a robot. We've all been on there. And I also think that that would be me doing a disservice to my clients to think that they have to read from a script because guess who wrote the script? Me. That's how I sell. That's how I talk. I want them to have that flexibility of like, I'm gonna talk like me.
Nikki Rausch [00:17:01]:
I love to see an example. Right? Because sometimes by seeing an example of a script, it allows for you to go, I wouldn't use that word or that's not the way I would phrase it. Great. Now phrase it the way that works for you. Now you get to be your authentic, genuine self in the conversation. Not all salespeople are the same. I know there's this whole misconception. And in my background, in my corporate career, I had the great pleasure of actually working and supporting 100 of sales reps in the field.
Nikki Rausch [00:17:30]:
And the very best, the top of the top sales people, if you put them around a dinner table, you wouldn't say like, oh, these guys are all the same. They're not. They're all showing up and being themselves. And they're confident about what their product is or services that they sell, their expertise, and they're interested in other people. It isn't like a me, me, me situation. And those were always the best sales people that I have the opportunity to work with. So it really is allowing you to be yourself. Having a script sometimes just to get you started to go, I like this piece and that feels comfortable saying it.
Nikki Rausch [00:18:08]:
I don't like this piece so I'll say this instead just to get you primed. But realistically, I want my clients to be so confident in the conversation. They don't necessarily need to have a script in front of them because they recognize this is a conversation, and we're just 2 people interacting.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:28]:
Yeah. Interesting. Because I was thinking, well, maybe there are some starter questions Because it's always the getting started. It's like, well, where do we start? We've got to start this rapport building, this awareness building at some point rather than the weather and the sports and the mundane things that drive me crazy sometimes. But you fall back on those because you're not sure where to start otherwise. What's your recommendation?
Nikki Rausch [00:19:00]:
Well, I teach a 5 step process to a sales conversation. And the idea is I call it The Selling Staircase. I actually wrote my 3rd book around it. And the reason I teach it as a staircase is because most people understand that you ascend a staircase one step at a time. So it breaks down in these 5 steps. And step 2, in the effective sales conversation, the selling staircase, is to create curiosity. This is the most missed step. So when you say, like, sometimes people just don't know where to get started, this is the piece that's often missing.
Nikki Rausch [00:19:33]:
If you don't know how to create curiosity when you're talking about your products or your books or just even yourself even, it makes for a weird, awkward conversation because the other person, they also don't know where to start. They don't know where to go in the conversation. So it allows for you to check-in to, like, am I peaking their curiosity about this? If not, that's okay. I'll try something else. So learning how to create curiosity is where you start. So instead of talking about the weather, which I like to talk about the weather from time to time, but sometimes it gets a little like, if that's all you're talking about, you're probably not selling a lot of books. You have to be able to bring that into the conversation. So instead of talking about the weather, how could we bring something that would create a little curiosity that would have somebody go like, what's that? Or, oh, tell me more.
Nikki Rausch [00:20:25]:
Or let me ask you a question. Because as soon as the other person asks you a question, now we're in a conversation. Now I have permission to talk a little bit about whatever it is that I piqued their curiosity about. Susan, you tell me how much deeper you want me to go around creating curiosity.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:41]:
It's crying out for an example here. Nikki.
Nikki Rausch [00:20:44]:
I have lots of examples. Okay. Just to get people started, let me back up just one second. I compare creating curiosity to the difference between how you call a dog and how you call a cat. So I know that sounds a little strange, but hang with me here for just a second. You know when you call your dog if yeah. I don't know, Susan, because you and I are just meeting, so I don't know if you're a dog or a cat person.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:06]:
Cat person.
Nikki Rausch [00:21:07]:
Okay. That's perfect. So you know when you call a dog, you do this, like, high pitched, like, come here, boy. Like, come here. And dogs respond to that energy. They're like, what? What's going on? Like, they don't even have to know what's going on and they're so in. Right? They're like, maybe it's a walk, maybe it's a treat, maybe it's a car ride. Don't care.
Nikki Rausch [00:21:24]:
I'm in. But when you show up in a conversation with somebody and you're really excited to talk about your book, you can show up sometimes with dog calling energy. And people don't respond to dog calling energy. They actually push away from it. It comes on too strong. It's too much. Like, we've all been on the receiving end of somebody going, like, I just wrote my first book, and here's what it's about, and here's where you can get it. And you should read it.
Nikki Rausch [00:21:47]:
And when you read it, you should leave me a review, and you're, like, oh, dog calling energy. It's it's too much. The flip side, when you wanna call a cat, you would never call a cat the way you call a dog. Right? Like, cats would never come to, come here, cat. Come here. Come here. Like, they'd be like, no. I'll run the other way.
Nikki Rausch [00:22:04]:
So instead, when you call a cat, you do this little like, here kitty, kitty. Here, kitty, kitty. And a lot of times, cats don't even respond to that. They just give you a look. They don't even come. They'll just look at you like, what? Impress me. Let me know if I'm gonna give you any attention or not. And with people, we wanna have these here kitty kitty responses.
Nikki Rausch [00:22:27]:
So just this is one example, and I will say there's a lot of ways that you can create curiosity. But one of the easiest ways to start to build your curiosity creating muscle is to learn how to answer the question, how are you? Because it's a common question, we get asked it all the time. And if you have just a throwaway answer like, I'm fine, how are you? That doesn't peak any curiosity. This is a prime time to peak some curiosity. Right? So if somebody asks you right now, how are you? You could say, I'm fantastic because I just hit x number of reviews on Amazon for my book. Now that may or may not create curiosity, but oftentimes people go, what's your book about? Congratulations. Oh, that's so interesting about your book. I should read it.
Nikki Rausch [00:23:17]:
Right? Like, it opens the door for you to talk about something. Or for instance, here's another one. If you said like, hey, Nikki. How are you? I might say, oh, I'm so great. My book is coming up on the 5 year mark and I'm really excited about it. And they go, what does that mean? Oh, okay. Or you may have heard it earlier, but I planted a seed to create curiosity. Earlier when I said something about that I have a signature framework that I call the sewing staircase.
Nikki Rausch [00:23:44]:
And I said, I wrote my 3rd book around it. Now that implies what? There's 2 other books I haven't even mentioned yet.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:53]:
Interesting. Yes.
Nikki Rausch [00:23:54]:
Can you create curiosity when you're talking about who you are, what you do, what your book's about, your thought leadership? And I will say, the answer is yes. You can. It just takes a little practice.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:07]:
Mhmm. But that's a whole different approach. I mean, we always get asked that how are you because it's, again, it's like the weather, and we don't know what to say. I've done enough trade shows, and that's the first thing people say to you. And it's like, Do they really want to know how I am? They sometimes have moved on before I've even had a chance to say, great. How are you? Or, you know And
Nikki Rausch [00:24:32]:
I would say, take this opportunity. If somebody asks you this question, how are you? Take the opportunity to plant your little here kitty kitty response and see if they pick it up. Now they might not. Don't stop them and say like, hey, wait a minute. I tried to create curiosity there. You were supposed to ask me a question. Just keep going in the conversation. I only teach things that I do.
Nikki Rausch [00:24:53]:
So I do walk my talk. If I'm teaching it, I do it. You know, one time I was getting into the hygienist chair, and she said, like, have you been lately? I gave her my, here kitty kitty response that I was giving to everybody that week. I was just playing and practicing to see what people would respond with, and she had her hands in my mouth. And then from there, she started giving me buying signals. Turns out, like, in no way did I go into the hygienist thinking like, maybe she'll become a client. But I don't know that, and it's not my decision to make. So I'll give her my, here kitty kitty response to, like, how have you been? And turns out, she had a side business, and she needed some support around sales.
Nikki Rausch [00:25:34]:
I wouldn't have known that going in, but I'm willing to just put it out there and see what happens. And that's what I would encourage anybody listening to this podcast, just get playful with it. You can even practice it with your friends and family and see if they pick it up and go, like, what is that? Or tell me more about that, or congratulations about, you know, x y z. And then they start a conversation with you, and you've just planted this seed for them.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:01]:
Brilliant. And it's a great segue, Nikki, into telling our listeners how they can find out more because they're probably chomping at the bit saying, I want to her to help me with more.
Nikki Rausch [00:26:14]:
Well, thank you. I absolutely would love to. And I always like to wrap my more around a little bit of a gift, if that's okay for your audience.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:23]:
I don't think they would reject that idea.
Nikki Rausch [00:26:25]:
Okay. Good. I have an ebook. It's called "Closing the Sale," and it kinda talks through the last three steps, which we didn't even talk about today in the sales process. It gives you some language suggestions, gives you that confidence boost to when to pay attention to certain cues. You can get that by going to YourSalesMaven.com/bookmarketing, all one word, book marketing. That will be my gift to you, will be connected, and I will have plenty of other resources for you around sales.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:58]:
That's beautiful. I'll put that in the show notes. And I know that your books are available on Amazon because I looked them up. And so, yes, I'm really interested in this what did you call it? The set by step selling staircase. Very
Nikki Rausch [00:27:12]:
nice. Staircase. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:13]:
Thank you. Excellent. And, Nikki, as you know, we like our guests to leave our listeners with a golden nugget. I know you've given us a lot already, but what's one sort of the words of wisdom that you would like to leave them with?
Nikki Rausch [00:27:28]:
Here's what I'll leave your audience with is never be afraid to invite somebody to the next step with you. And if the next step is, would you be interested in hearing more about my book? Or would you be interested in checking the book out? Or would you be interested in a free chapter? Just ask the question. They can decline. Don't take it personally. Remember what I said about the dessert menu. But be willing to ask. Because sometimes people don't know how to ask you for what they need or want. And if you're willing to ask and let them have that opportunity to make a decision, you'll find you'll get more readers, you'll find new clients.
Nikki Rausch [00:28:05]:
It just makes it so much easier for the other person to not have to ask you, but for you to ask them.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:11]:
So beautiful. Yes. And just your reproach, your calmness about selling, it makes it much more approachable because I just loved what you were saying, all the different examples. And so this is great stuff, listeners. I know you're gonna have to listen to it again, and I know I will because there was so much juicy information that Nikki shared with us. So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, Nikki.
And listeners, by the way, if your book isn't selling the way you want it or expect it to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. So go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com to schedule your free call.
And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
