Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest is Julie Fry. Julie is the founder of Your Expert Guest, a podcast guest booking agency for thought leaders who want visibility without spending hours on social media. She's passionate about the magic that can happen in your business when you connect with the right podcast and host. Julie and her team help entrepreneurs with everything they need to attract new clients from their podcast guest appearances. Julie, it's a pleasure to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor. Thank you
Julie Fry [00:00:55]:
so much, Susan. I'm really grateful to be here. Well, we're gonna
Susan Friedmann [00:00:59]:
be talking about one of my favorite subjects. As I said before, we went on the air. Podcasting, I love it. I love being a host. I love being a guest. I love having guests. It's just wonderful. But one of the questions that I get asked a lot by authors is, how do you get on a podcast? How do you find podcasts? So let's start very basic and start talking about how do you find the right podcast to be on?
Julie Fry [00:01:32]:
Yeah. Great question. Knowing that a lot of your listeners are nonfiction authors, one of the reasons that they would be guesting on podcasts is to raise visibility and awareness of their book. And oftentimes, there are other reasons that you would guest on podcasts. But the number one thing to do before you even start going down this journey is determining what's your ideal outcome that you'd like to see from guesting on podcasts. Is it that you want to build awareness of your book? Are you hoping to generate leads for your business? Are you looking to create referral relationships with potential referral partners or build your professional network? So there's lots of different reasons to go on podcasts, and that can inform what you talk about and the types of shows that you go on. Step number 1 is getting really clear on the why behind what you're doing. In terms of finding podcasts, one of the first things that we suggest is looking at your expertise.
Julie Fry [00:02:36]:
What are you known for? What are you going to be talking about? What is your book about? And then who do you want to get heard by? And then finding the intersection between those 2. And I'll give a quick example because sometimes this is what a new podcast guest's first impression of the types of shows they should go on. And it's in my do's and don'ts category. So this would be a don't. Let's say that you wrote a book about sales. It's sales for maybe a new salesperson. A lot of the times, the first instinct is to go on podcasts about sales because people that are listening to those podcasts are, oh, yeah, you know, they're gonna be talking about sales. It's all about sales.
Julie Fry [00:03:20]:
But when you go on shows that is filled with a bunch of other experts talking about similar things or the same things that you are just one of many, and it's really hard to stand out. We suggest when you're thinking about the right fit shows for you is looking at who is your target audience in terms of is your book about sales? Is it for brand new? It's their first job out of college. So you'd want to find shows that are for new graduates and go on that show. Because on that show, they're talking about all sorts of different things relating to your first job out of college. And your episode about sales will stand out head and shoulders above any of the other episodes that are about sales because they're not talking about it. Hopefully, that makes sense. But looking at what industries or what niches of your target audience, who do you want to be talking to within that realm, that that is a really good place to find those shows. So that's our number one strategy for finding the best fit shows for you.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:25]:
I love that. And you're talking again about my favorite subject, you know, niche marketing, finding a niche where other people aren't. And as you said, you could be talking sales. Sales is such a huge subject, but Mhmm. You could be selling in many different environments, small business, large business, you know, every industry needs sales. And if you can hone in on one of those industries, that's going to be far better for you, as you say, rather than just being general and up against everybody else who's talking about sales. I really love that. And I love the idea of knowing in advance what you want from that podcast.
Susan Friedmann [00:05:10]:
You talk about building awareness or, you know, referrals or getting leads, talking about your book. And I know that this show, particularly, I don't talk about books per se. I get pitched by agencies that say, Oh, my client's written a book. You must want to interview them. No. It's not about the book. As you mentioned, it's about your experience. What can you share with the audience that will be of value? Keep going down.
Susan Friedmann [00:05:46]:
What else do we need to be doing to get ourselves on a podcast? Yeah.
Julie Fry [00:05:52]:
There are a number of different ways. Once you kind of cover the specific niches, you can look at competitors. So what podcasts are your competition going on? Usually you have a unique thought leadership or a unique point of view that differs from anybody else in your space. So that still provides you the opportunity to go on the same podcast that a competitor did, and you would stand out from them. And if you feel that you don't have any competition, good for you. But even if you don't think you do, you can look up on Amazon to see who has written books about maybe the area that you're an expert in and see what podcasts those folks have gone on. I like using LinkedIn. LinkedIn has some really great search capabilities.
Julie Fry [00:06:41]:
You could go to the search bar and type in podcast host, and you could then filter on podcast hosts that are in your 1st connections. And it will pull up anybody that has podcast hosts listed in their profile and that you're already connected to. What a lovely way to get started on your guesting journey by reaching out to people that you already know because you're connected on LinkedIn. I know some of us maybe don't know personally our first level connections, but at least you have that kind of warm piece where you're already somewhat connected to each other. That's a great place to start is with people in your own network. That would be another idea on getting started. Those are to not overwhelm you or fire hose you with too many ideas. Those are kind of 3 great places to start.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:33]:
They're lovely. I've not heard that one with LinkedIn, and it seems so simple because you're right. What would you look up? Podcast host. Mhmm. Yes.
Julie Fry [00:07:44]:
Yeah. And then you could go a little bit deeper if you wanted to look for podcast hosts that are in a certain genre, so you could include that in the search. But I really like just looking at who's connected to you. We do this for our clients where we will type in podcast host and then connections of our particular client. You can add that too as well. LinkedIn is so powerful.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:07]:
Yes. And I think we underestimate the power of it.
Julie Fry [00:08:10]:
It really is.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:12]:
I mean, but even going into, let's say, Google and doing a search on the top podcasts in a certain area is helpful. However, then you're starting from a different standpoint because you don't know the host and you don't know even who the host is sometimes. I mean, there's just that research of finding out who the host is.
Julie Fry [00:08:36]:
Yes.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:36]:
So, yes. Let's say we've found a dozen podcasts we'd like to be on. And we've got the name of the host, then what?
Julie Fry [00:08:47]:
You've identified a podcast that looks like a good fit. We have a checklist that we suggest you go through, I really should turn this into a free resource on our website. I'll put that as a to do for later. Step 1 is listen to the podcast. You're looking for a few things when you're listening to the podcast. If you're looking at it on your phone or your podcast player, do a quick scan to see, is the podcast still releasing new episodes? Because sometimes you'll come across a podcast, you think it's a great fit, and you see they release their last episode in 2022. The next thing you wanna do is make sure that they do have guests on, if not every episode, at least from time to time. You can do a quick look through previous episodes on your podcast player, and usually the guest episodes are noted by the name of the guest.
Julie Fry [00:09:40]:
It's usually in the title of the podcast episode. Once you've checked those 2 off, you're in a good place. So now you can really dig in and go through the steps to determine if it's a good podcast for you. In listening to the podcast, you want to just listen for ways that you could connect with the host personally, Maybe they are from the same part of the world that you're from, or maybe they end up talking about their career on Wall Street, and you also worked in Wall Street. But you're looking for points of connection that you can use in your pitch. After you've listened to an episode and gotten a sense of their style, kind of how they run their interviews, then I suggest going to the website. From there, look at their about page, learn a little bit more about the host. What's their backstory? What is it that they do? Who do they do it for? Look at their services page or how we work with clients.
Julie Fry [00:10:35]:
Get an understanding of what sort of services do they offer. So just kind of gather as much information as you can about the host and the podcast so that when you are sending your pitch, you can really personalize it. And we'll talk more about that later. When you're on the website, you wanna be looking for the contact section. Sometimes, hosts will say, if you are looking to be a guest on my podcast, please fill out this application here. That's usually going to be on the contact page. If there is not anything referencing that and they just have a contact form, then that could be a way that you send your pitch to the host. Again, looking at the website, looking for how can I get in touch with the people that produce the podcast for this show? Those are the initial steps for once you find a good fit show, you've determined it's a good fit for you, and then you go through the steps of collecting the information so you can actually pitch them.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:31]:
And I love that part of it because, again, speaking from experience, people who pitch me, I know they've never listened to a podcast.
Julie Fry [00:11:43]:
It's pretty obvious. Right?
Susan Friedmann [00:11:44]:
It's very obvious. If they tell me they've listened to 1, it's always the most recent one. Yes. You took the words out
Julie Fry [00:11:54]:
of my mouth. Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. We've seen that a lot. I get pitched. And I have a 6 episode podcast that we use for onboarding new clients. And I think I did it in 2021.
Julie Fry [00:12:06]:
But I still get pitched for that podcast. And there were no guests. I don't have guests. It's not active. So it just blows my mind how often people don't do the it takes time, but I'm not talking about hours and hours worth of time. It just takes some time to do the basic steps to do the research. I hear you.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:27]:
Yes. It really amuses me when I get these requests. And I usually get at least 1 or 2 a week.
Julie Fry [00:12:33]:
Oh, sure.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:35]:
And I have a form now because before, I was like, How am I gonna vet these people? So now, I do have a form that they need to fill in to see whether it is a good fit.
Julie Fry [00:12:48]:
So Good for you. Have you found that to be helpful for
Susan Friedmann [00:12:52]:
your workflow? Very helpful. Because they might send me a whole letter with all the information about their guest, well, their client who they want to be a guest on the show. And it's just too much. I can't take it all in. And I really don't want to know of the stuff that they put in there. Then I say, you know, Thank you for contacting me. Here's a form. Fill it in, and then we'll vet you.
Julie Fry [00:13:21]:
Mhmm. Perfect.
Susan Friedmann [00:13:22]:
And sometimes it's interesting. I've had clients who was like, Oh, yeah. That was a good choice. I had one quite recently. I interviewed a poet. And I don't know why. I just liked what, you know, ended up coming to me. And I was like, You know what? I think this guy might be very interesting.
Susan Friedmann [00:13:42]:
It turned out to be a fabulous interview and I haven't released it yet. But by the time yours comes out, it will have been released. And it was a fabulous, fabulous interview. So Oh, I love that. You just never know. Yes. Yes.
Julie Fry [00:13:57]:
And having some diversity in your guests is great. And I'm sure we'll talk about this, but just how either you pitch yourself or if you hire someone to pitch for you, just some things to be mindful of because you wanna make it easy for the host to determine, is this person a fit or not?
Susan Friedmann [00:14:15]:
Exactly. Let's say that you get to be a guest on the show. Mhmm. What are some do's and don'ts when you're actually on the show?
Julie Fry [00:14:26]:
So you're saying not in the pitch, but once you're on the show?
Susan Friedmann [00:14:30]:
Let's say you've gotten all the boxes checked, and they like you, and they think, Yeah, this will be a good person to have on the show. Okay. And you come on the show, then what?
Julie Fry [00:14:40]:
Okay. We'll start with the don'ts first. Don't show up without doing a little bit of research. Send this would apply more if you're being invited onto a show rather than you pitching yourself for a show. Don't show up and not do any research. Don't be a hard salesperson where you're constantly pitching your services or your book or whatever it is that you're wanting to promote on the show. Kind of alongside of that, don't be transactional, Just looking at what you're getting out of the show because that's a turn off for the host. It's a turn off for the listeners, and it will guarantee that you're never invited back on.
Julie Fry [00:15:23]:
And it probably won't be a well listened to episode of the show. Don't provide a 500 word bio to the host for them to read. 1 of the shows that I listened to on a weekly basis, she had a guest on recently, and she proceeded to read his 500 word bio. And I just stopped listening, and I didn't listen to her show that week because I didn't want to hear that long of a bio. Let's see what else. Don't forget to thank the host when the episode is over, whether it's an email or a thank you card in the mail. Don't forget to share the episode when it goes live because that's how the host can continue to grow their show by reaching new audiences. Those are some of the don'ts.
Julie Fry [00:16:14]:
Some of the do's are just the flip side of what I just shared. So do have a quality microphone so that your audio will match the quality of the host. It's a turnoff to listeners if the host has great audio, and the guest sounds like they're talking inside of a tin cam. Do show up with stories of either how you got started in your business, or why you wrote this book, or how you work with clients, but stories are how we all learn and connect. So the more you can bring into your interview some great storytelling, the more engaging of an interview it will be. Let's see. Share the interview once it goes live. I am a big fan of leaving a host rating and review because, again, it just helps their show get found and discovered by more potential listeners.
Julie Fry [00:17:07]:
Let's see. Have I missed something glaring? I'm kinda going off the cuff here, Susan.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:12]:
But they're really great points and reminders too. I love the fact that you said that 500 word bio. I've had those. I will not read those. I want 75 words or less. You know, it's short, sweet, and to the point because to your point, it's off putting that you start an interview with this long bio. That's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. And if somebody sends me a long one, I shorten it.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:43]:
I'll put it through Chat GPT and say, Hey, give me 75 words on this.
Julie Fry [00:17:48]:
I was just going to say I was going to suggest that same thing. Is Chat GPT can be really handy for shortening bios, coming up with interview topics. There's a lot of great ways that you can use it. So don't be afraid to do that if you've got a really long bio.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:05]:
Yes. And sometimes, if I'm not sure what questions that I want to ask, I ask chat. I said, well, you know, if you were interviewing this person, give me some simple, down to earth questions that I could ask. And, yeah, it does. I love it when that happens. Yeah. That's such a great resource. Yes.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:26]:
Somebody said to me, Oh, you ask such in-depth questions, such great questions. And I thought, Yeah, chat helped me with that. Didn't tell them that. Yes. I love that, thanking the hosts. Sharing, I think that's so important. I do ask in my form that they say that they will share. Mhmm.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:47]:
And we do send quotes if they want to share things.
So in the transcription, we get suggestions. So we try and give our guests as much information as possible to make it easy for them to share.
Julie Fry [00:19:04]:
I love that. I see a lot of hosts that ask their guests to share the episode, but then they don't let them know when it goes live. They don't provide any copy. So it's actually hard for the guests to do it. The easier you can make it for them, the better. And then for the guests that hesitate to share because they feel like they're being boastful or they don't like talking about themselves on social media, I suggest put the spotlight on the show then. And, like, for instance, if I were to share my episode, I would just put the highlight on book marketing mentors and why this is such a great show for nonfiction authors on ideas on how to market your book. And, oh, by the way, we talked about podcast guesting and your book marketing efforts.
Julie Fry [00:19:49]:
And so you're putting the emphasis on the show and who should be listening to the show and hopefully getting you new subscribers. So I find that's a really good technique for people who hesitate to share.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:02]:
Yeah. I can't wait for you to share this episode. That's gonna be fabulous. I know one of the topics that you like to talk about is how to repurpose the interview because you've done the interview and you do a share on your social media platforms, and then what? How can we repurpose it so that we can get more mileage out of this interview?
Julie Fry [00:20:27]:
Yeah. One of my favorite ways to share about repurposing interviews is one that isn't talked about a lot, And it's to use it in your discovery process with new clients. Similar to like, let's say you're having a family portraits taken and the photographer sends you links to how to dress for your photoshoot and advice to be prepared for in the photoshoot location. You can do the same thing with your podcast interviews. So think about the questions that come up most often from your potential clients and find your podcast guest episodes where you talk about those situations or those questions, and you can share those even before you have a conversation with a client. Like, say, they book a call with you, you can email them, I'm looking forward to our call. Here are some of the common questions that come up with clients, and here's an episode where I discuss those. We have a client that does this really, really well.
Julie Fry [00:21:29]:
She's a money coach. And because people are working with her in such a personal way, she really wants to make sure it's a good fit. And so she will, based on kind of why they came to her, tailor certain podcast appearances so that they can get a better sense of what working with her looks like. And she says it's very helpful. It cuts down on that process and the timeline from when somebody discovers her books a call to when they become a client. That's one of my most kind of underutilized way to use your podcast guest episodes.
Susan Friedmann [00:22:05]:
I really like that one. I think that has great value. It sort of, like, takes the place of, like, a sheet of frequently asked questions because But it personalizes it. But it personalizes it. Yeah. Really nice. Good.
Julie Fry [00:22:20]:
Yeah. So outside of that, you can take a podcast interview and you can create blog posts. So it's so easy to get transcripts now. You can use a variety of tools online to translate the episode and convert that into a blog post because Google and the search engines like your website to be updated on a regular basis. And a blog is a great way to do that. There's creating blog content. There's creating social media posts, whether they are just a static post with quotes that were great quotes from your podcast episode or a carousel, the type of post where you would have different slides where maybe it's a little bit bigger idea, and then you have quotes on each of the slides. If it's a video interview, you can create short video content with captions that you can share on LinkedIn.
Julie Fry [00:23:17]:
Or if you're more of an Instagram person, you can create reels from your podcast interviews that, again, you're not having to create new content for these platforms. You can just take what you shared in your podcast interview, and take the content that you already did, and then just put it in a different format for your various social media platforms. So those are a few things that we actually do for clients as part of their done for you packages, as well as working with folks that just maybe have podcast interviews that they've never really done anything with.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:51]:
Mhmm. Yes. I know that I've got several that we've put up on social media, but we've done nothing more with them. So there's some great ideas. I love that. And that's a great segue, Julie, into telling our listeners how they might be able to find out more about being a guest on a show and the services that your guest experts offers.
Julie Fry [00:24:16]:
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Our website is YourExpertGuest.com, and we do a variety of services just to support people in their visibility by being a guest on podcast. So when is the done for you where we would work with you, book you on relevant shows, and all you have to do is show up and have the interview. We also provide personalized lists of podcasts that would be a good fit for you so that all you have to do is write the pitch, and we include some templates along with that. You would be doing the work yourself, but we take away that time consuming research. And then, of course, we do the content repurposing for folks.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:57]:
Yeah. Which, you know, that first part of finding the podcast, as I said, I mean, we started off this interview with talking about that because that's really the first question. You You know, I talk about podcasts as being probably the number one marketing tool for non fiction authors. Then the next question to me is, well, how do I find the podcast to be on? So the fact that you can already start the ball rolling for them is excellent. And I apologize. I gave you the wrong name and your expert guest.
Julie Fry [00:25:34]:
It's okay. Have both domains because that does good.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:39]:
So I'm not the first person to make it there.
Julie Fry [00:25:42]:
First and you won't be the last. It's perfectly okay. I was going to say I actually have an article on, resources for finding podcasts to pitch yourself as a guest. I can give that to you if you would like to put that in the show notes too because it kind of runs through that in more detail. I would be thrilled to.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:00]:
Thank you. That would be a great resource for our listeners. So, yes, do send that, and I will include a link to that in the show notes, and of course, to your website as well. And Julie, I know you've done your research. You get 10 out of 10. You get the gold star because not very many people do that before coming on the show. I know you've listened to a few episodes.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:27]:
And so you know that we always ask our guests to leave with a golden nugget. What's your golden nugget?
Julie Fry [00:26:37]:
My golden nugget is aligned with your suggestion of podcast guest interviews are the number one way to get visibility in your business. Whether you are hesitant around it, hire it out, hire somebody to do it for you, see the value in doing it. I'm also happy to have a complimentary chat to give you ideas on how you can get started on doing it your own because I'm so passionate about the power of sharing your voice and your message. And if you've already got a book, you've already put that into the world. Now you have to make people aware of it. Just taking the leap into guesting in whatever form you do. I am so passionate about that.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:23]:
No, we share that passion. Absolutely. Because so much blood, sweat, and tears went into producing that book. And sometimes people have taken 20 years before that book has come out. It is so important that, as you say, that they get the message out. And podcasting is an incredible way in which that voice can be heard, and the value that you bring, your expertise. Because it's not just about the book. I mean, people are buying what the book can do for them, what your expertise can do, and the value that that brings.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:01]:
So absolutely, that's a beautiful way to end. So I appreciate you being on the show, Julie, sharing your incredible wisdom.
And listeners, by the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money and energy, and it's time you got the return that you were hoping for. Go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And, in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
Julie's Resources:
1) Custom Podcast Pitch List:Â
2) Blog post on finding podcasts to be a guest
3) "Best Guest Ever" Checklist
