Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest is Sam Leibowitz, also known as The Conscious Consultant. Sam is a renowned mentor, speaker, healer, and serial entrepreneur who hosts the popular radio show, The Conscious Consultant Hour. He's a best selling author of the number one empowerment book, Everyday Awakening, and has owned several successful businesses since 1993. His current ventures include Talk Radio NYC and Double Diamond Wellness in Manhattan. Sam has also made his mark as a featured speaker as TEDx Upper West Side in 2016.
Sam, it's wonderful to finally get you on the show and welcome you as today's expert and mentor.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:07]:
Thank you so much for being here. I know we've had a challenge getting you on, but we made it. Yay.
Sam Liebowitz [00:01:14]:
Yay. Well, thank you so much, Susan. I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to speak to your audience and hopefully add some value.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:22]:
I know you will. We've had a lot of guests, Sam, as you know, talking about being a podcast guest. But we've hardly spent any time discussing actually being a podcast host, and I know that's something that you're an expert on. Let's first talk about maybe the advantages versus being a host or a guest. Let's start off there, and then we'll transition from there.
Sam Liebowitz [00:01:52]:
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. It's a great question, Susan. After running talk radio dot n y c for 4 over 14 years now, I've really come to see so many people who come to me and say, oh, I just wanna be a guest. I don't wanna actually be a host. But then I see what happens after working with so many hosts because when you're a podcast guest and you're presenting your message for the first time to the audience of the host, it's normally the first time they're hearing about you. And you're there to sort of promote yourself, promote your book, promote your business.
Sam Liebowitz [00:02:32]:
And the first time someone hears you these days, it's not that easy to get them to take action. It's a really big ask to say, hey. Sign up for my newsletter, buy my book, or go to my website. However, the easiest ask you can make is if you have your own show, you know, they're listening to you on someone else's podcast, so they like podcasts. The easiest ask you can make is, oh, and by the way, I also have my own show called the such and such show. Come listen to my show and subscribe to it. And then what happens is every time you get interviewed, some percentage of those people are gonna come over and listen to your show. And then after they listen to your own show for several weeks, now they've kind of gone through that know like, and trust you spaces that now they're willing to take some action.
Sam Liebowitz [00:03:27]:
Now they'll sign up for your newsletter. Now they'll consider buying your book, But to do it on the very first time that they hear you, in my experience, that's a pretty heavy lift to make. It's a pretty big ask to make. That's why I always say to people, like, if you're going out guesting on a lot of shows and you don't have your own show to refer people to, you're missing a huge opportunity where you could bring some of that audience over to be your own audience. And that's where the real power is, is in having these people as your audience.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:03]:
I love that perspective. To be honest with you, I hadn't even thought of it that way, but that's dynamite. Now with the millions of podcasts out there, it's a very crowded space. Why start your own show?
Sam Liebowitz [00:04:17]:
First of all, it's not quite as crowded as most people think because if you look at the actual statistics, less than 20% of all the podcasts out there are actually active. And I think of that 20% less than 17%, I think it is, have more than 8 episodes. There's lots of podcasts that's been published, but in my opinion, the host really did themselves a disservice because they stopped doing it. And so people stop listening. People stop going to it. So it's not nearly as crowded a space as you might think.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:56]:
That's interesting.
Sam Liebowitz [00:04:57]:
But the other thing why you should start a podcast, even if there are several other active podcasts, is because you have your own unique voice. You're going to appeal to people in a different way than other hosts. And people are gonna come to you because you're different. You might be talking about the exact same topic, but you're gonna talk about it in a different way in your own flavor because nobody else has the exact same life experience and knowledge that you have. So it's always gonna have a slightly different flavor to it than anyone else.
Susan Friedmann [00:05:35]:
Yeah. You're absolutely right because mine has a different flavor from somebody else who is also talking about book marketing. Yeah. There are several podcasts out there about book marketing, but, hey, this one works. We've been doing it now for 8 years. I think it's that consistency I know that has kept it going. In the beginning, I was like, how am I gonna keep this going? But you make it work. Now what about having a show where it's just you versus what I'm doing and what I love to do, which is interviewing experts like yourself?
Sam Liebowitz [00:06:14]:
They both are good in different ways, and I've seen people use both techniques quite successfully. Like, I remember I used to have this wonderful astrologer on my network, Monte Taylor, who was a union astrologer. And he would very rarely have guests on his show because he wanted to share his knowledge and his brilliance with his audience, and his audience loved it. They loved it. They ate it up. And when he stopped doing it, he actually used to get phone calls from people asking him, when is he gonna come back and start doing his show again? However, there is a real advantage to interviewing other people because when you interview other people, they have their own mailing list. They have their own audience. Hopefully, you've prepared them properly so they promote the fact that they're gonna be on your show to their audience.
Sam Liebowitz [00:07:07]:
So that brings new listeners to your show, and that makes your audience expand and grow. And, also, when you interview different people on different topics, there's this thing I call it the halo effect, where everyone thinks you're the expert on everything even though it's you've had different different experts, different guests on your show.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:29]:
Like, I'm sure for you,
Sam Liebowitz [00:07:29]:
Susan, your authors probably think you know everything about all different aspects of marketing your books and stuff because you've brought on so many amazing thought leaders onto your show.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:42]:
So I'd like to think that was true, but that also puts enormous pressure on me. So I like to say, I don't know everything, which is a good thing too, I think.
Sam Liebowitz [00:07:52]:
Right. And you don't have to know everything. You just have to know the people who know everything.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:57]:
Mhmm.
Sam Liebowitz [00:07:57]:
And I do. And so you have all these partners who you can refer people to. So if someone comes to you and says, hey, Susan. How about doing this type of marketing? What do you think? And you'll be like, well, you know, it's not really my expertise, but let me refer you to someone who that is their expertise. I had someone on my network who did that very successfully, Tony, who did a show all about nonprofits. And he only did 2 things for nonprofits, but he talked about every different aspect of nonprofits. And he had a handful of close professionals who took care of all these different aspects, and they would come on his show on a regular basis and talk about what's the latest in terms of prospect research or event planning or board management. He would constantly get calls for things that he didn't do himself, but he would refer to other people.
Sam Liebowitz [00:08:45]:
And because of that, they really liked him, and so they would refer people to him for what he did for nonprofits.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:52]:
Oh, that's brilliant. I like that one too. Yeah, I tend to like to find new people all the time and occasionally have the same person back again, but maybe talking about a different aspect of the topic or maybe even another topic. So, yes. There are a lot of myths surrounding podcasting. Talk to us about some of the common myths.
Sam Liebowitz [00:09:17]:
One of the biggest myths is like, oh, I have to be perfect as soon as I start my show. And I'm sorry to tell you all, but your first show is always gonna be your worst show that you ever did. But the good news is you only get better from there, and it's one of those things where you really have to learn by doing. You just gotta get in there and start doing shows, start talking, and practicing your monologues or interviewing people because the more you do it, the better and better you're going to get at it. I've been doing my own show over 14 years. I'm really good at it, but I didn't start off so good. I mean, that's the first myth is being perfect right out of the gate.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:03]:
That's funny you should say that because I remember those first few episodes. And even though they are in the database and people can access them, it's almost like I prefer them not to. Yeah.
Sam Liebowitz [00:10:18]:
Yeah. You kind of cringe when you hear yourself.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:20]:
Oh. And the first one, I thought, I'm gonna have this expert, this name. He wasn't the greatest. His equipment wasn't good. It was a disaster. And I'm like, do I put this out? And I was like, if I don't, I'm just going to stall. So I just did it and as you said, you get better by doing. And now, I mean, I feel comfortable doing things that I would never have dreamt of doing or saying in those first few episodes.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:51]:
So you're right. You gotta do it to get better.
Sam Liebowitz [00:10:53]:
Right. And, actually, you bring up a really important point, which is another big myth, which is just because someone's an expert in their topic doesn't mean they're a good interviewee. Mhmm. And that's why I almost always try and have a pre interview call with all the guests that come on my show so I get a sense of how they answer questions, how eloquent they are or aren't. Do they tend to answer in these monosyllable answers like, uh-huh, no, yeah, maybe, sometimes, or do they go on and on and on for, like, 10 minutes so they ask them one question? You really want to learn to, like, pre interview people and get a sense of how you're gonna need to handle them, or if you really wanna actually interview them for your show, because they may be a great expert. But if they're a lousy interviewee, it's gonna make not such a great show, and you're gonna be pulling teeth. And it's gonna be a lot of work, so you might not wanna have them on your show.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:49]:
Yes. Which, again, I've learned over the years that I just don't accept anyone who just says, oh, yes, I want to be on your show. I've got a vetting procedure myself. Because like you, I mean, I get requests at least 2 or 3 a week from podcast agencies. Oh, I've got a client who's written a book. They'd be perfect for your show. Uh-uh. I don't interview people just because they have a book.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:17]:
In fact, several of my guests haven't got books and that's okay because I wanted their expertise in an area that doesn't necessarily mean that they have to have a book.
Sam Liebowitz [00:12:29]:
Right.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:29]:
Again, you learn by doing, but you gotta do it, and you gotta do it consistently. And the same in the public speaking arena. Always remember, you can't pick up a book and read about how to be a public speaker, which I'm sure the same thing happens with podcasting. You can't read about it. You've just gotta do it.
Sam Liebowitz [00:12:49]:
Absolutely.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:51]:
Talk to us more about what it takes to be a good podcast host.
Sam Liebowitz [00:12:58]:
The number one skill I feel someone should really have to be a really good podcast host is the ability to be truly present with the person you're interviewing and ask deep penetrating questions. One of the skills that not a lot of people focus on is learning how to ask really good questions, But to be able to ask a really good question, you have to be really present to your guest and really listen to what they're saying. Because many times, a guest will go and sort of gloss over some little aspect of their answer because for them, it's just natural. They do it all the time, whatever. But that could be real gold for your audience, and you wanna stop and go, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Sam Liebowitz [00:13:51]:
You just said blah blah blah blah blah. Let's dive into that a little bit more. You see, but if you're not really present to what they're saying, you're gonna miss those golden opportunities because to them, it might be something they've just always done because that's who they are. And for you, that might be something that, like, really makes a huge difference.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:11]:
Yeah. I've had several of those. And you're absolutely right that it's almost like a throwaway sentence or a word or phrase, and I'm like, Woah, let's go down that avenue. And I like to be very flexible. I've got questions, and I also want to go where my guest is going if I feel that it's right. If I don't, then I'm going to, through my questioning, veer them off into a different direction. Yes. But often, I've delved into things that, as you say, was a throwaway.
Sam Liebowitz [00:14:45]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I just also wanna mention that in particular for authors, why I really feel it's so important to have your own show is because you've created all this great content. You have a message. You wanna get it out there to an audience. Having people read your book, that's one audience. But a lot of people now are busy, and they don't necessarily read as much as they used to, but they listen. They consume media like crazy, whether it's audio or video.
Sam Liebowitz [00:15:19]:
And when you have your own show, you're starting to build your own platform. You're starting to build an audience, a following. And what's very interesting is that, well, if you've written one book and you did well with it, you're probably gonna write a follow-up book or a second book. And if you've built an audience through having your own show, when you launch that second book, those people, your loyal listeners, they're gonna be the first people to go out and buy your book. And not only they're gonna be the 1st people to go out and buy it, but they'll tell their friends and family about it. I mean, when I wrote my book, Everyday Awakening, and I came out, I hit number 1 in 3 different categories on Amazon. And one of the main marketing vehicles I had was my show. Now by that time, I had already been doing my show about 10 years.
Sam Liebowitz [00:16:07]:
So I had quite a nice audience. It's something where it's not, an expense. Investment. It's an investment in your future. It's an investment in your brand, in your business, and it's an investment of your time because there's so many ways that you could repurpose and reuse your show that you actually can save time in the long run if you work with someone who has enough experience to guide you into how you can repurpose it in ways that will save you time.
Susan Friedmann [00:16:42]:
Which is an interesting transition because I think I'd really like to go down that route and say, okay, let's talk about some of these ways that you could repurpose, which again might motivate listeners to say, hey, you know, it isn't just this half hour or this hour or however long you want your show to be, but also what else you can do with that. So let's, delve into repurposing a little bit.
Sam Liebowitz [00:17:08]:
There's so many amazing ways to repurpose a shell. So the first way I always like to highlight is it's a great way to create some programs that have in them the information that you would want your customers to know before they come to work with you. For instance, I used to have this technology guy way back when I first took over the network. This technology guy who did his show in all different aspects of technology and computers and stuff. And when he would go in and meet with a potential client and they talk and he'd find out what is the client really interested in, he'd have a little flash drive and he'd say, oh, you know what? I did a show about this. Like, let's say it was cybersecurity or something. He'd go plug in the thumb drive, drag over the file that was on the episode of that topic and say, here, listen to this episode and then let's talk next Tuesday. And then he'd call him up on Tuesday, and the guy would be like, you know, I listened to the episode.
Sam Liebowitz [00:18:08]:
It was great information, gave me a good overview, but I really need to know how do I use it in my particular situation. Come on in. Let's bring you in and hire you to work with us. So it's a great way to kind of pre educate potential clients who work with you.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:23]:
I love that one. That's a new one. I love that. Yes. What else?
Sam Liebowitz [00:18:27]:
Another way, it's a great way, and I was actually talking to someone who had a podcast the other day about he thought this was great. If you have also a potential client, you can use them as a case study. You can offer, say, hey. If they're considering your services, but they're a little leery of making decisions, you can say, hey, why don't you come on my show and let me coach you or let me give you advice. You talk about your situation. What's your problem? What's your challenge? What's your journey? And then let me work with you on my show and give you advice on ways that we could potentially work together or solutions that I potentially see. So they become like a live case study that helps you in many ways. First of all, the person you're interviewing, they see your good ideas when they come on your show and you've given it to them basically for free.
Sam Liebowitz [00:19:14]:
They're like, wow. That was really good. I bet you know even more stuff. They're much more likely to become a client. And because they're a real person with a real situation, there are probably several other potential clients out there who are facing the same issue that if they listen to that episode, they go, wow. You know, he was pretty good. That was, like, same thing like what I'm dealing with. Maybe I should contact them and see if they can help me.
Sam Liebowitz [00:19:39]:
Doing these, like, live case studies is a very potent way of helping to build your brand and your business.
Susan Friedmann [00:19:46]:
Beautiful. That's also a dynamite idea. How about engaging the audience to ensure that they're really staying interested and then, of course, that the material is relevant? How can you make sure of that?
Sam Liebowitz [00:20:02]:
This is one of the reasons why what I do at talkradio.nyc, I call it an Internet radio station and not just a podcasting network. Because when you stream your show out live, you do have an opportunity to engage with your audience live. They can comment on the live streams, whether it's Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn or YouTube. And you can see those comments and then you can respond to them. And if you're paying attention to them while you're doing the show, you can actually integrate it, and this is what I do. You integrate it into your show. Like, oh, there's Patty from Tucson, and Patty says blah blah blah. And I agree, Patty, 100%.
Sam Liebowitz [00:20:40]:
And by shouting them out and integrating that into your show, you create tremendous loyalty and tremendous engagement. Now if you're the type of person who only does prerecorded shows, it's a little more challenging. But what I would recommend is you have a newsletter where you email people each week saying, hey. This week coming up, I'm doing a show about such and such. But you can use that newsletter in many ways where you can say, hey. Coming up, I'm going to be interviewing somebody around this topic. Let me know what your questions are, and I will make sure to ask my guest your questions. You gotta, like, put that in there ahead of time from when you're actually gonna be interviewing the person so they have a chance to email you and say, hey, I would love to know about this or I'd love to know about that.
Sam Liebowitz [00:21:28]:
And then when they listen to the episode and they hear you asking their question to your guest, that makes them feel real good, and that will help to increase engagement and loyalty.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:38]:
Fabulous. These are dynamite ideas. Now what about the challenges? What are some of the biggest challenges as a podcast host? And how would we even go about overcoming them?
Sam Liebowitz [00:21:52]:
The biggest challenge for me that I see out there is weighing whether you wanna do it yourself or you want a done for you solution. Meaning, like, you're gonna handle all the technical stuff. You're gonna figure out the editing, the music, and the sound, and how to get listed on all the platforms, and how to do all that technical stuff, which probably is not your area of expertise. So that's gonna take you a lot of time versus going to a network like my own or a podcast producer or somebody who knows how to do that really well, and they can handle all that technical stuff for you so you can just focus on the content. Now the thing is, if you have lots of time, but you don't have lots of money, of course, you're gonna do the do it yourself solution. But at some point, you have to weigh, like, how much is your time really worth? And then do I go to a done for me solution where I'm paying someone? So it's costing me more money, but it's saving me time because I'm not worrying about editing and all that other stuff. And so to me, it's one of those big challenges is when you kinda start, you don't do everything yourself, but then you get busy and then you don't have time. You don't wanna stop doing what you're doing, but that's when you might wanna start looking for someone who has a solution that, you know, does quality work that's been in business for a while that can save you a bunch of time so you can keep doing your show, but just spend less time doing it.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:21]:
Which is a wonderful segue, Sam, into talking about exactly what you said, what you do and how you can make it a hell of a lot easier for one of our listeners or our listeners who want to have their show but are scared at all the extra bits. There's one thing interviewing, which might be the easy part, but it's all the rest that they're like, I don't even want to take that on.
Sam Liebowitz [00:23:51]:
Yeah. As I mentioned, I've been doing this over 14 years now, and we've evolved and grown and changed based on what we've seen the needs are. Now I kinda say what we do is a full white glove service. Like, we handle everything for our hosts except for the content. We take care of promotions. We promote them in our newsletter, on our social media, when I network, constantly promoting our shows. Then we handle production, meaning that there's an an engineer or producer in the room with you who handles playing the music and the commercial breaks. We do a lot to cross promote and cross pollinate between our shows.
Sam Liebowitz [00:24:29]:
So we make a 30 second promo spot that gets played during the breaks, and we do host meetings to bring people together. And then we distribute the show. So it goes out on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and Twitch, and then we get you up on all the major podcasting platforms, Iheartradio, Pandora, Apple, Google, Spotify. We get you everywhere so that no matter where your audience is, they have an opportunity to find your show. And then the big thing is, and I find a lot of people in the industry don't do this, is we provide analytics every month. You know, today is the 2nd August. I gotta go now, download all my log files from July, from the website, from the social media platforms, from the podcasting platforms. We download all that data, put it in a giant spreadsheet, sorted and subtotal it by show, break it out and then send it to each of the hosts so that they see how many people are actually listening to their show each month.
Sam Liebowitz [00:25:27]:
And not just how many people listening overall, but like what episode is most popular? What platform do we getting most popular? Like, one of the things I've seen over the last few years, because we have these statistics, that the video streams that we do are picking up tremendously in popularity compared to the audio channel. So I'm seeing that more and more people are looking to consume content via video as opposed to just audio. So that gives me tremendous insights. We really do everything so that just our hosts, they just kinda show up, do their genius for an hour each week, and then go about their day, and we pretty much handle everything else.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:11]:
That's so wonderful. It really does. Of course, because we're doing this audio only, I have yet to transition to doing it on video, but I love this format so much as I feel it's like NPR radio, you know?
Sam Liebowitz [00:26:27]:
Yes.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:27]:
I do enjoy it. Sam, how can people get hold of you if they're interested to talk to you further about your services?
Sam Liebowitz [00:26:34]:
Thank you so much for asking, Susan. And really, thank you for the opportunity to give me to talk about what I do a little bit. I'm really easy to get a hold of. You can go to our website, www.talkradio.nyc. It's dot NYC because we're headquartered in New York City, but our hosts are all over the place. I've had hosts as far away as London, England, and Sydney, Australia. And if you wanna contact me directly, my email address, really simple, Sam, my name, [email protected]. Email me.
Happy to set up a meeting and answer your questions.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:10]:
Yeah. And it just sounds so great, and I know that you've got different packages. Obviously, you talked about the all singing, all dancing version, but I know that you've got smaller packages based on people's budgets. Is that correct?
Sam Liebowitz [00:27:25]:
Actually, since the pandemic, I've really simplified my business model. So I will customize my package if somebody doesn't need the full shebang. But, basically, I offer a 12-week, not a full year, just a 12-week all-inclusive package. And 12 weeks, you need to at least be doing it for 12 weeks to really get a good feel for it. But let's say someone already has a show and they're already taking care of certain aspects, but they'd like the live aspect, and they just wanna move the show over. We'll create a custom agreement for that person. But my basic agreement is all-inclusive, 12 weeks. And then, anything else, I'll work with you on an individual basis.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:04]:
Fabulous. And I know you've given us such wonderful information already, but as you know, we always like our guests to leave our listeners with a golden nugget. What's yours, Sam?
Sam Liebowitz [00:28:17]:
So many people think that the thing that's stopping them from having a successful podcast is, like, their content, their money, their time, all these things, which it's really not. The number one thing, and we've alluded it to it before, and you've even said it, Susan, is consistency. It's starting and sticking to it. It's what Seth Godin calls the long tail of marketing. The longer you're doing the show, the more findable your show is, the more success you're gonna have. But it's doing it consistently. I've seen too many people start doing the show. They like it.
Sam Liebowitz [00:28:53]:
They continue doing it, and then they take a month off and they lose all their listeners. And then they come back, and it's like building it up from scratch. Being consistent is the most important thing you can do in having a successful podcast.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:08]:
Yeah. And I've noticed that over the years, and I'm thrilled that I've kept it up. Although I do remember that when my father passed away, I had not set things up in advance, and I didn't have a show for several weeks. And I thought, Oh, my goodness, you know, people are going to write to me, gonna wonder what happened. I didn't hear from anyone. I was like, oh my goodness. They didn't even miss me.
Sam Liebowitz [00:29:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. Because there's so much out there. They're so busy. They're like, on to the next one. She She stopped doing her show. No big deal.
Sam Liebowitz [00:29:40]:
I go on to the next one. That's why consistency is so important because once you lose people, you lose people.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:46]:
Yes. But we've got them back again, I hope.
Sam Liebowitz [00:29:49]:
Yes. I'm sure you have.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:50]:
Sam, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom. I love this different perspective which you gave, which are totally different from being a guest versus being in control and having your own show. I mean, I love it. I love being a guest as well. But I absolutely adore having my own show as I know you do yours.
And, listeners, by the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call and brainstorm ways that you can ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return that you were hoping for.
Go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com to schedule your free call.
And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
