Susan Friedmann [00:00:31]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. 

 

Today, my special guest is Dr. Paul Jenkins, who's also known as the positivity psychologist. With 30 years of clinical experience, Dr. Paul gets past the trite, fluffy versions of just think positive to the actual science and psychology behind positivity. It's like having an instruction manual for operating the equipment of your mind. He's a good friend and a National Speaker Association colleague. 

 

Dr.Paul, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:01:30]:

Susan, I am thrilled to be here with you, And I'm excited about where this conversation can go, especially as you were reading my introduction. And you mentioned that we're going to get past all of the trite, fluffy versions of positivity,

 

Susan Friedmann [00:01:49]:

some of which are kind of destructive, actually, and get into the psychology behind how to actually operate the equipment. Excellent. I'm so excited too because I think people have this, we'll just think positively. Oh, it'll be okay. This too will pass, and all those kind of it seems like nonsense. And even my husband sometimes says, well, it's fine. It'll be fine. Just think positively about it.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:02:19]:

I was like, that isn't helpful. So let's start with, you know, always get very granular and so that everybody's singing out of the same hymn book, so to speak. And look at, from your perspective, what exactly is positivity?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:02:39]:

I think to address that, Susan, if we were to first look at what my job is, my job is to illuminate the obvious. Now this is really cool because I get paid to tell people things they already know. But there are a lot of things that are obvious once they're called to your attention, but they're completely unnoticed up until that point. Like the feeling of your clothing on your body. Can you feel it?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:03:08]:

I can. Can you? Well, now now that you're pointed out about it.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:03:15]:

Now that it's pointed out. Exactly. This is something that's obvious now, but was unnoticed until the point when I mentioned it, or the fact that we're speaking English. Have you noticed?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:03:29]:

Well, I understand you, so you and I must be speaking and understanding the same language that we call English.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:03:36]:

Yes. And even slightly different versions of English.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:03:39]:

Yes. But now that it's called to

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:03:43]:

our attention, it's obvious. And up until that point, it was unnoticed. Obvious but unnoticed. This is the realm in which many of our mental processes are based, and they're completely obvious to you once I call them to your attention, but unnoticed up until that point. Just a moment ago, Susan, when you were mentioning the trite fluffy version of just think positive, if our spouse or a coworker or someone says, well, just be positive.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:04:16]:

It's annoying. It's that's

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:04:19]:

real. And it's definitely not helpful, and it usually triggers somewhat of a defensive response in the recipient. And that's because we're trying to tell them how to think. It's not our job to tell people how to think. That's up to them. My job is to show people that they are thinking, help to point out what the effect of that thinking is, and then it's totally up to them. I'm not here to tell you how to think. I don't have that kind of authority.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:04:50]:

But I do want people to see that they are thinking. And once they see the processes that are going on in their own mind, then they're in position to choose whether this thought serves me well or not. Until you see it as a choice, it's not. And we just roll with whatever our programming is. When you invite me to get granular about this, there are 2 specific processes that are going on in your brain all the time. You can't turn them off. What are they? Well, I hope that piqued your curiosity a little bit.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:05:30]:

It certainly did. It speaks mine.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:05:33]:

Before I tell you what they are, let's talk about why they're in place, and then I'll share with you what they are. You'll see them immediately as soon as I call them to your attention. Your brain's job, its primary job is to keep you safe and secondarily to prove you right. Now both of these get in our way all the time, but this is a survival mechanism. Our brain has to keep us safe. So it's constantly monitoring our environment for potential threats. When our brain picks up on a threat, it goes into a very predictable protective response. We call it the fight or flight response.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:06:16]:

And usually, it feels like anxiety or fear or apprehension. Now I don't know if authors ever feel that.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:06:26]:

Never. Oh, they're so confident, so positive. All the time. Liar, pants on fire. Yes.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:06:35]:

And what is it that gets in our way more than anything else when we set out to publish our book, for example?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:06:42]:

I'm speaking for myself here, but I see it with so many of my clients, Dr. Paul, and that is we get in our own way.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:06:50]:

Right. I had an opportunity to interview Dr. Richard Nisbett on my podcast, Live On Purpose Radio. He wrote a book called Thinking, which was actually endorsed by Malcolm Gladwell. And as I was interviewing Dr. Nisbet, he said and this is his life's work, Susan. This is what he did for his whole career, studying thinking and logic and reason. And he said the number one error that we make as humans is that we believe what we think. Now let that settle in for a minute. Mhmm.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:07:28]:

Yeah. It's funny because I actually use a slide in one of my programs that says, don't believe what you think.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:07:38]:

And yet that is what Dr. Nisbett identified as the universal error of thinking. We believe what we think. And when I said earlier, our brain's job is to keep us safe and to prove us right. So once we think something, our brain goes about looking for and discovering and even fabricating evidence that we're right. And that gets us into trouble. Just saying. Very interesting. Those processes.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:08:11]:

Think they are right. I have to convince you of that.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:08:16]:

You know what? I think it might be a higher level than that even. I don't think that we think we're right. I think we know we are.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:08:23]:

We know we're right. Yes. Yes. Yes. And especially get on to the nitty gritty here.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:08:29]:

Let's get Oh, well, we could go on about that for some time, but I promise you to tell you 2 processes. These are going on in your mind all the time. This is like gravity. Do you ever get up in the morning and think, oh, wonder if gravity is on today? It tends to be, and then your life is affected by it. Whether you're aware of it or not, you're affected by gravity all the time. In a similar way, these are principles of thinking. This is something your brain is going to do whether you're aware of it or not, whether you intentionally do it or not, it's happening. So the first one, the first process is evaluation.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:09:10]:

That's a nicer word for judgment. So I'm just going to invite everyone to focus for just a minute on this process. Actually, I'm inviting you to do something called meta cognition, which is a fancy psychobabble word. We make up words in psychology. It makes us feel smart, and this is one of them. Cognition means thinking. If we break the word down, metacognition is a higher level. It's thinking about thinking.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:09:44]:

And that's exactly what I'm inviting you to do right now. And notice that as I call this to your attention, it's obvious that you can do it. You can think about your own thinking. Well, metacognition is really important because metacognition creates a space. In that space is where choice exists. Actually, that may bear repeating. Okay? Metacognition creates a space. In that space is where choice exists.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:10:18]:

And until we see it as a choice, it's not. So think about your thinking and notice that you are constantly judging. Do you see it?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:10:30]:

I see it. It's loud and clear in my thinking.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:10:34]:

Yes. And there it is. It's okay. Some people feel a little ashamed when they start to notice, oh, yeah. I'm constantly judging. I'm just inviting you to see it because you can't turn it off. Your brain's job is to keep you safe. Therefore, it has to be constantly evaluating, judging, scanning, assessing the environment.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:10:58]:

So there you go being human. This is important to notice, however, because while we're judging and what are we judging? You judge yourself pretty harshly sometimes. You judge your manuscript. You judge your idea. You judge your coworkers. You judge your spouse. You judge the government. You judge the economy.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:11:22]:

You judge the weather. You're judging me. It's cool I'm judging you.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:11:28]:

It's a two way street here.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:11:30]:

Oh, absolutely. So just notice that you're doing it. Now the word evaluation implies comparison with some standard. Susan, sometimes when I'm speaking, I'll ask my audience. Am I a tall man? And that's an evaluation question. And it's an odd question because they're looking at me like, well, you're right in front of us. Right? And I say, I think it would help if I showed you a picture of me. And then I put a picture on the screen of me next to Mark Eaton.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:12:03]:

Do you remember big Mark, Susan?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:12:05]:

I remember Mark. He was such a darling. What a dear. What a giant of a man. I love love Mark.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:12:13]:

We lost Mark a few years ago in our National Speakers Association, and I put up a picture of me next to Mark. Well, Mark was one of the leading shot blockers in the NBA. He played center for the Utah Jazz. He stands 7 foot 4. And next to Mark, everybody looks like shrimp. I'm 6 foot 2, and I barely make his shoulder in this picture. It's a great visual. And it brings to our awareness how this process works.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:12:46]:

Because for you to answer that question, am I, Dr. Paul, a tall man? Now on an audio podcast, it's hard to tell, but when I say I'm 6 foot 2, you're like, oh, oh, see, that's a standard. In order to evaluate anything, we have to have a standard of comparison. Yeah.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:13:06]:

Compared to what is the question?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:13:07]:

Compared to what? Compared to whom? Compared to yes. Exactly. In doing that, just notice that you have to have a standard. Now if you don't have a standard, you'll make one up, and you've got a really good imagination. Let's take well, we're a group of authors here. Your manuscript, your next book, whatever phase of completion it's in right now, how is it? Okay. Now this is an evaluation question. As an author, you're going to look at your book and you're going to ask that question.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:13:40]:

Well, how's my book? Is this a good book? Is this a weak book? Is this a strong book? Is this a compelling book? Do you see these are all evaluation questions, and in order to answer it, you have to have some standard to compare it to. Now the next thing I invite you to notice is no matter how good your book is, you as an author can see that it could be better. Is this true?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:14:09]:

I think without any shadow of a doubt, people say, oh, you know, if I could do it all over again, I would do this differently and that differently. Yes. There's always room for improvement.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:14:22]:

This is true. I remember my editor asking me, how will we know when we're done? Because there's always another edit. Mhmm. There's always something that you could do to revise or improve, and I'm going to put a pin in that for just a minute. We're gonna come to that. But when it comes to evaluation, we are constantly judging. Now how is your book? Is it good? Is it bad? Now some people will say, well, this is a bad one, And I'm oversimplifying that, but notice what we do. We'll look at something we've created and we think, oh, that's not very good.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:15:02]:

What are we comparing it to? That was what's going through my mind. It's like, if you're comparing it to a Pulitzer Prize winning book, it probably doesn't even show up on the radar.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:15:14]:

It's like me standing next to Mark Eaton. Yeah. But what if we were to compare it to all of the books that have not been written by people who are too afraid to pick up the pen? Who uses a pen anymore, Susan? I

 

Susan Friedmann [00:15:31]:

Put their fingers on the keyboard. Yes. So one of the things that's going through my mind as you're saying all of this, Dr. Paul, is that after the written process, yes, and then you judge it, and then there's this fear of putting it out into the marketplace. This fear of being judged, of being criticized. And I am a culprit of that, too. But the fact is that the judgment sort of all of a sudden, it's in stereo.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:16:06]:

It's so loud.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:08]:

So how do we deal with that?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:16:11]:

Because everyone else is judging it too.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:14]:

Of course.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:16:15]:

They can't turn it off either. Some are going to love it, and some are going to hate it. If nobody hates your book, you're probably not clear enough in your marketing.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:27]:

That's a scary thought. Well, you were someone to not like it.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:16:34]:

Exactly. Because the lovers and the haters of whatever you've created are already out there. When you put it in front of them, they have an opportunity now to make that known. As you come out of anonymity, you will be judged. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying let's notice that. We can't turn off our judgment, neither can other people. Now sometimes we take that judgment of theirs as our new standard, and we say, well, it's not good enough.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:17:08]:

Well, according to whom? According to whoever you're listening to. And I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong. I just invite you to notice that this process is one you can't turn off. You're constantly judging. But here's why that's important. When you take what it is, okay, so your book in its current state, or your finances, or your relationship, or your mental health, or your fitness, or whatever. Okay? You take what it is and you compare it to something much better, then how do you feel about what you have?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:17:47]:

Yeah. Not great. You wanna hide. You're like, oh, let me hide. I don't want anybody to see me, to see it, etcetera. Yes.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:17:56]:

Exactly. Now when you take what you've got and you judge it or evaluate it against the standard of something that's much less than what you've got, something that's worse than what you've got by your own judgment, then how do you feel about what you've got?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:18:16]:

Yeah. I've written a masterpiece. Wow. Yeah. Look at this.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:18:22]:

Now here's the truth of the matter, and I'm not asking you to just believe this car plunged. I think you need to run it through your own filters of truth and see if this is true. What it is is all you got. Now I'm not saying it's all you could have. We're coming to that. But by definition, what it is is all you've got. And what it is is always now, Susan, my editor told me to always avoid the word always and never use the word never. But I just used it.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:18:53]:

What it is is always between better and worse by your own judgment. Is that true?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:19:02]:

It makes sense that if you wanna put put the word true to it, then yes. Yeah. It's your interpretation of that.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:19:13]:

Now what that means, if those two assertions are true or make sense, then no matter what it is, it could always be better, it could always be worse. We get to choose how we judge or evaluate it. Now this creates energy, and energy precedes outcome. This will make more sense if we add the other process in. Can we go there next? We can. It's called creation. Alright. Creation of what is to be.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:19:50]:

And that doesn't exist yet. We haven't created it yet. So the only place it can exist currently is in our present thinking about it or our imagination. So we imagine what is to be, but it doesn't exist yet. So if I were to ask you, how you doing next week? You don't know. Yes. It's so

 

Susan Friedmann [00:20:15]:

funny because somebody asked me the other day, they said, well, what do you see a year from now? I was like, I'm barely thinking about the rest of the day and what tomorrow or the rest of this week is. I can't think about next year.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:20:29]:

Right. And even when you start to think about it, you don't know. You can imagine. You can guess. You can make plans for. You can set goals. You can work toward objectives. All of that is true and that's all part of a creation process.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:20:47]:

But you don't know how you're doing next week. You don't even know if you're gonna be on the planet still, So it's all imaginary. Now I get fired for this sometimes because I really know this is real. It becomes real as we create it. You've got something to do with it, but all you can do now is imagine. Now when we imagine or predict or expect or anticipate that what's coming is even worse than what we already have, how do we feel? Mhmm. You feel that?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:21:22]:

We're not feeling too great.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:21:24]:

Right. Susan, this is anxiety. That's 30 years of clinical experience in a nutshell. Anxiety is defined by our imagination of worse things to come, and then it kicks in. You know, I told you our brain's job is to keep us safe, And so your brain is in alert now and kicking you into the fight or flight response, which manifests as anxiety.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:21:50]:

There are people who think that way all the time and anticipate the worst. And it's like, why put that energy out there? Because if energy creates the outcomes, then you're creating your own reality.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:22:12]:

It will manifest because basically you've just given your brain the blue prints, the instructions, the marching orders for what to go create. And that is so aggravating when, you know, I've had over 30 years now of clinical experiences. People have come into my office and they're like, oh, my life is such a mess. Right? That's the short version. And I'm sitting back in awe. Wow. Yeah. You are a powerful creator.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:22:44]:

And tune in with this. You have the power to make a mess. Have you noticed?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:22:53]:

No. No. That never happens in my life.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:22:56]:

Well, not you, Susan. You're the exception, obviously. We have the power to make mess. If you don't believe that, what would happen if I gave you an assignment to take a half hour and somehow, using your creative energy, somehow in the next half hour, make your life worse. Could you do it?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:23:17]:

I wouldn't want to do it. I would, like, go into freeze mode. It's like, why would I want to make my life worse?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:23:25]:

I wanna make it better. Exactly. You would never do that on purpose, but look how quickly your brain can come up with half a dozen ways to pull that off. It wouldn't even take a half hour. This is good news. You have the power to make a mess. But wait, how is that good news? Well, if you have the power to make a mess, then you have the power to make, and that is good news. Now what we're going to make depends on what we imagine in a very clear creative process that we can go through.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:23:58]:

But rather than going into that right now, focus on the energy, the feelings when we imagine that what's coming is even better than what we've already got. When we imagine it, predict it, expect it, anticipate it, how do we feel?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:24:17]:

It's exciting. And, you know, I always listen to my client's voice on prospect, you know, how they talk about their book. And if they're enthusiastic and passionate about it, I'm excited to work with them. But if they're like blur about it, it's like, well, if you're not enthusiastic about your own work, why should anybody else be?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:24:43]:

Right. Energy precedes outcome. Yeah.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:24:47]:

Yeah. It certainly does. Dr.. Paul, we could go on for hours about this. It is so intriguing. I love this stuff. I could eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:24:59]:

I do.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:25:00]:

In the meantime, I know our listeners will want to know how to find out more about you and your brilliance.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:25:13]:

Thank you, Susan. And you know that I've put this into a visual model because I believe that our brain learns things better when we can wrap our heads around a model, and I've created one of those. It's in a mini book called Portable Positivity. And I think the best way for any of you who are listening to connect with me is go get a copy of that mini book. I've got a free digital download of "Portable Positivity" ready to deliver to you. Just if you'll remember my name, DrPaulJenkins/susan. So you gotta remember both of your hosts here today. Your host and your guest.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:26:00]:

Drpauljenkins.com/susan. That will get you a free digital download of this mini book, and I think that's the best way to follow-up on what we've talked about here because it will put the model into your hands. And it's even got a picture of me standing next to Mark Eaton in it. I know.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:26:19]:

I can see it right now. First of all, thank you for your generosity. This is an incredible piece, listeners. So I hope, if nothing else, that you go and download that because it really just goes through Dr. Paul's model, and you're like, oh, is it really that simple?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:26:39]:

It'll make more sense once you see the visuals to it

 

Susan Friedmann [00:26:43]:

as well. Exactly. So Dr. Paul, as you know, we always end off asking you to share a golden nugget with our listeners. What's yours?

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:26:54]:

The one that's coming to mind very strongly for me right now is this. Circumstances are neutral. And in saying that circumstances are neutral, I'm not saying that they are easy or painless. They may be extremely difficult and painful. What I'm saying is it could always be better. It could always be worse. When you notice that, it puts you back into a position of choice relative to your thoughts and specifically evaluation thoughts and creation thoughts. This allows you to control the equipment of your own mind, And that's why that came as the golden nugget.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:27:39]:

Circumstances are neutral.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:27:40]:

Fantastic. Yes. And, you know, as I said in the introduction that, you know, you have an instruction manual for operating the equipment of our mind. And you've certainly given us part 1 of that. So the rest is in the Portable Positivity Book listeners, which there'll be a link in the show notes for you to download that. Dr. Paul, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:28:17]:

I think there is room for you to come back. In fact, I not only think I know there's room for you to come back for us to do a part 2 of this because this is so juicy. So we'll have to set that up.

 

Dr. Paul Jenkins [00:28:33]:

That would be awesome. I will welcome the opportunity. Thank you, Susan.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:28:37]:

Thank you. And by the way, listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you want it or expect it to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money and energy, and it's time you got the return that you were hoping for. Go to BrainstormWithSusan.com
to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

Download your copy of Dr. Paul's mini book, "Portable Positivity"