Susan Friedmann [00:00:31]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest is Sophie Lechner. Sophie helps mission-driven entrepreneurs find their audience on LinkedIn and build relationships with them so that they can spread their message and grow their business. Her 20-year presence on LinkedIn has led to speaking engagements, podcast invitations, clients, and a Forbes interview. With her signature method, the magnet model, entrepreneurs can stop the never-ending chase for clients and replace it with a joyful sharing of their gifts with dream clients they attract like magnet.
Wow. Sophie, welcome to the show and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Sophie Lechner [00:01:33]:
Thank you, Susan. Thanks for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:37]:
I'm so excited about it too, because as you and I were talking a little bit before we went on air, we've had a lot of interviews with people who are experts in LinkedIn. What attracts me so much to you is that you've got this incredibly successful magnet model, and I'm, like, I'm intrigued. I mean, just the name of it is it's like a magnet. I mean, it's like drawing people in. They want to know more, and you're attracting dream clients, and your clients are attracting dream clients. So let's jump in and start talking about this and dig deeper so that our listeners can just get a taste of your wisdom and, of course, your magnet models. Let's start off. What exactly is this magnet model?
Sophie Lechner [00:02:30]:
Yes. Thank you, Susan, for asking me this. It's something that I've developed. It's a kind of a framework to think about how to approach LinkedIn. In all honesty, it's really something you can use to approach all of your marketing. Over the years, I found that entrepreneurs are often kind of they get stuck in this opposition between their client work that they love, and they wish they could spend all of their time there. And then the other stuff, the marketing, the admin. But the marketing is like a huge part, and it's really this thing that they wish they didn't have to do, but they kind of are sort of stuck having to do.
Sophie Lechner [00:03:11]:
I found that the real way to be successful on LinkedIn you know, I've been on LinkedIn for 20 years, and I did all these things. You mentioned a couple of them. And I tried to go back and say, okay. What was it that was doing that worked so well in those years when I was recruiting, you know, a 150 faculty members for my business or gone to Forbes, all those things. And then I took all this and I distilled it down to this model that I think really, really helps people to approach LinkedIn in an entirely different way, different mindset, if you will. And following the model, they're able to have this success That's getting
Susan Friedmann [00:04:04]:
That's getting me excited because I know that one of the biggest roadblocks in using LinkedIn is the fact of just understanding the platform and being able to use it to help grow your business, which I know is what it's really all about. But knowing how to work that and enjoy it at the same time, I'd love to feel that I enjoy my experience there. And at the moment, I can't say that I really do.
Sophie Lechner [00:04:37]:
Yes. Exactly. And, you know, over these years that I've been doing the LinkedIn coaching specifically for mission driven entrepreneurs, I have really come across this situation many, many times. People just doing LinkedIn because they have to and not enjoying it. In the end, when you think about it, anything that you don't enjoy is just basically not really sustainable because after a while, you're gonna burn out or you're gonna stop doing it or you're not gonna do it in an effective way. Right? So you really need to do this in a way that is satisfying, gives you the professional satisfaction of your client work, you know, is similar. The way the the model works is really it's not about how to use LinkedIn. It's about what you bring to LinkedIn and to your marketing that makes it different.
Sophie Lechner [00:05:28]:
So it's a Venn diagram with 3 parts. It's It's mission, message, and movement. The first component is mission, and it's about reembodying the fact that regardless what your competitors are offering or doing or thinking, you have something that is absolutely unique to you, which is your mission and your experience and your perspective and your expertise. All of that together is a package, and there is no one else like you. So it's not about competing, it's about focusing on your mission and the big thing you want to do in the world, the way you want to help people. That's the mission part. The message is, yes, about the message, but it's deeper than that. It's really about completely and deeply understanding your clients, your audience, your customers so that you can really get in there.
Sophie Lechner [00:06:25]:
And with your content and your profile, but mostly your content, it's really address the beliefs that they have. So sometimes it could be limiting beliefs, or it could be just that they're not aware of what they're thinking about the thing that you help with. And you need to bring them to this point where they believe certain things that will allow them to even seek help. Really understanding not only their motivations, but what they're not even conscious of that needs to be explored and understood and come to the surface of their consciousness so they can then get help. So the message and then the movement is really you can start a movement and, you know, have a a community and a group and all this, but this component is more about the mindset of really putting your mission in front of you. Because a lot of the entrepreneurs I speak to feel uncomfortable putting themselves forward, and they feel that everything they do on LinkedIn and in their marketing is self promotional, and so they resist it. But if you are passionate about something and you have this mission and you put it in front of you, that's what you are selling to the world. It's much easier to then talk about it, and you can really be advocating for the mission and being there to help people.
Sophie Lechner [00:07:47]:
That makes you much more bold. It allows you to really step into your power, enlist, you know, advocates and champions and people who can really then join into broadening this message and communicating it out there.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:03]:
That is so fabulous because what that does, as you were going through all of that, Sophie, you know, the message, the mission, or the mission, the message, and then the movement, is exactly, you know, I just saw the book. I mean, this is what the authors who I work with, this is exactly what we talk about. We talk about what do they want their book to do for them, which I see as the mission. And then the message, what is the message that they want to put out there in the marketplace? And many of my clients want to start a movement with their message because they feel that it needs to be ongoing. It's broader. It encompasses so many different things. And, yes, you're looking at it in terms of client understanding. What do they need? What are the misconceptions, the myths? Or as you said, they may not even know what they don't know.
Sophie Lechner [00:09:04]:
Exactly. Yes. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:07]:
It's beautiful. That fits in so well with a book. So let's talk about that with regard to a book and then using that book to put messages out to your target within LinkedIn, How do you advocate people use this information?
Sophie Lechner [00:09:30]:
The one thing to know is that the sooner you start using LinkedIn, the more benefit you will get over time. There's this snowball effect that is undeniable. So if you're thinking of writing a book, then start posting on LinkedIn and have it beefing up your profile and posting on LinkedIn so you could start the conversation. Because we all know, and book writing is same as marketing and other endeavors, The more conversations you have with people, the more you will fine tune your thinking, your message, and how to verbalize it. Right? The sooner you start on LinkedIn, the better you can then sort of feed your book, if you will. But regardless at what stage you are of your book writing, you can use LinkedIn to market your book, to launch your book, to recruit your launch team, you know, your beta readers, all those things that you can do with LinkedIn. And it's interesting. If you want, we could discuss this.
Sophie Lechner [00:10:32]:
You can use LinkedIn in the process of writing your book, and you can use your book in the process of using LinkedIn. So there's, like, different complementary strategies based on where you are with your book. I'll stop there for now.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:49]:
Let's look at it from the standpoint of the book is out there. It's been published. Maybe they've launched it, or maybe they're in the the throes of launching the book, but for the most part, my clients at least have got their book out there. And maybe LinkedIn is a new platform, or they've been on LinkedIn, but they really haven't been on LinkedIn. They've been hidden. They're sort of a well kept secret. Started with us?
Sophie Lechner [00:11:25]:
If they have a book and it's been out and they are relatively new to LinkedIn, or as you say, there's a lot of ghosts on LinkedIn. Right? People who put a a profile there and then never looked at it again. So the first thing is really to create a profile, you know, a live profile, meaning well documented and that has everything you need in it that really captures who you are, what your perspective is, what you do. I mean, your book could be completely aligned with what you do, or it could be, you know, sort of a a side, thing. But either way, you need to really talk about what you do and your audience and what your book is about and how it fits in with the rest of who you are. Very importantly, you know, we talked about the mission. Sharing your mission in your profile is very important to be able to engage people in conversation. In other words, when they come across you, you want to make them want to talk to you.
Sophie Lechner [00:12:27]:
It's really putting your best foot forward and putting as much on there that can build the know, like, and trust factor so that they want to engage with you. And then the second step is I mean, there's a few other things as well, but the other big component is the content. And, of course, if you have a book, it's tempting to take little extracts of your book and put them out there. If that's all you do in the beginning, I'd say go ahead and do that and refine your approach over time. But I think a more effective approach is to really not necessarily follow the outline of how you wrote the book or how the book is developed, but think about the audience for the book. The book is your product. Right? You want people to read it. So it's really taking your audience before they even know that they need this book.
Sophie Lechner [00:13:22]:
It's a little meta. Right? So you kind of go back to the people who haven't read your book and think about what are they thinking now that might make them believe that they don't need this book. Right? And then what do they need to believe in order to want to read this book? And then you post some content that answers that question. Like in other words, what do they need to know and understand and believe in order to get to a point where they want to read this book? You can share some little nuggets that are in the book as sort of teasers, But, really, that's what you want to do is and, you know, I'm talking to the author marketer here, so you're probably nodding your head like crazy because it's really you want to make
Susan Friedmann [00:14:08]:
people want your book and your content. You talked about this know, like, and trust factor that you're always looking to build that. Mhmm. How do you build that with, you know, you're talking about putting out information that answers some of the challenges. Or maybe even as we said, they don't know that they really need what you're offering. And so you're explaining it in articles maybe. But that interaction, because I know through LinkedIn, the big thing is that conversation and getting into conversation with people. Where does that fall into all of this? How do you get that started and yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:55]:
Yes. Let's start with that.
Sophie Lechner [00:14:57]:
I love that you brought this up because the profile and the content are but a means to an end. And the end being the conversations, the end and the beginning, of course. You know? But it's the conversations is what we want. And the profile and the content are sort of your ways of being present on the platform so that anybody who comes across your content to your profile and the rest of your content can immediately learn about you, see you maybe in a video, go through that process of being intrigued, finding out a little bit more, deciding you wanna dig a little bit more, spend more time, go down the rabbit hole of getting to know you through your content and your profile. And that's how they gradually would get to like and trust you as well. And the way to get from this initial, if you will, intellectual exercise of going down the rabbit hole to get to know you and bridge that to the conversation is really with engagement. And engagement is the whole point of content. Mostly with posts, you want your post to be really short and really snappy and really sort of intrigue people into wanting to learn more.
Sophie Lechner [00:16:17]:
You ask an engagement questions. You talk about something and you say, well, what do you think about this? A little bit more specific than that, but have you noticed this, or what do you do when you notice this? And gradually, the people in your audience start to answer. Or maybe in the beginning, they just like or, you know, put a reaction, and you engage with them and say, you know, thanks for liking my post, and I'd love to, you know, know more. You go on their profile. You see what they post. You comment on their post. And there's this conversational dance that starts happening between your comment on their post, their comments on your post. And after a while, there's a few interactions.
Sophie Lechner [00:16:58]:
You get to kind of begin to know each other, and you can connect. At some point, it just makes sense to go to a private message conversation. So you you deepen the relationship a little bit through that. So a couple of back and forth in the DMs, and then you can say, you know, let's get on a call and see of course, you don't do this with everybody, but, you know, there's this kind of, I hate to use the word funnel because that's has other connotations. But you start these conversations with all the people who comment, and then gradually, you win a way down to those you think you would benefit from having a conversation with. And then you say, well, let's get on a call. So that's how you go through that process of the know, like, and trust factor.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:43]:
Keeping that in mind, which is great, I'm still sort of searching for, how does one fall in love with doing this? Because I know that that's something that so many of your clients talk about is that Sophie made me fall in love with, you know, using LinkedIn. And I was like, okay, I want what they've got, but I want to enjoy the process. So, yeah, how can I enjoy that?
Sophie Lechner [00:18:09]:
It's a multipart process, but I would say the first part is really to going back to the basics of the model that I talked about in the beginning. It's refocusing entirely on your mission. A lot of us mission driven entrepreneurs were really, really driven by what we can do to help. And anytime you're in your mind thinking, oh, I gotta do this. I have to post. I don't like it. And if you switch that attitude and look at, well, what could I help someone figure out today? The same thing that we do with our clients because this is what we like to do. We want to help.
Sophie Lechner [00:18:48]:
This is what brings us joy. You want to do the same thing, but with the people on LinkedIn. LinkedIn to help someone who you don't know, they're faceless. And so when you embody this sort of generosity and this curiosity, you're able to go on LinkedIn and rather than looking inward at all the things that block us, if you let yourself be generous and curious, you are able to then connect with this part of you that gets excited, that's happy to do this work, and that helps. And the second biggest contributor after that is when you start to get people to comment on your posts. And then it's like this faceless platform that is on this computer in front of you, all of a sudden takes on this human dimension. It's like, oh, somebody commented, hey, there's a human there. And then you have this back and forth with them, and you get into what they're saying, and they might be saying something interesting, and this happens again and again, well, lo and behold, that's actually really fun.
Susan Friedmann [00:19:55]:
Yeah. Once they start interacting that for the most part, I either get, that was really nice, that was very interesting, or it's just a heart or, you know, sums up. And I'm like, that isn't helping me. That isn't giving me anything quantifiable that I can go back and say, well, maybe tell me more. What did you find interesting? I suppose I could do that. I'm not sure.
Sophie Lechner [00:20:33]:
Help me with that. Then this comes down to the art and science of, creating content that will actually resonate with your audience, that will captivate them, that will compel them to engage with it. And art and science, like I said, because, yes, there are templates, there are formulas, and then you tweak and tweak over time. But there are ways to really get more interaction from your audience. A big part of it has to do with the size of your network. So you always want to be connecting with everybody you know, everybody you meet so that you have as many connections as possible because it's not even so much about who you're connected with that will see your message, but who they are connected with. So when somebody comments or reacts, all of their network will see your post. That's where the snowball effect happens in terms of views is having a lot of people in your network and continuing to build that.
Sophie Lechner [00:21:35]:
And then the comments is the other way. And you can in the beginning, when you're not having a lot of engagement, you can ask a few friends to go and comment on your post just to kind of get the ball rolling and show the algorithm that this is content that's being engaged, that's receiving engagement just to get the pump started, if you will. And then after that, it will start happening.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:59]:
That's fascinating because I know that, happening I know that and I'm trying to think of his last name. Richard Bliss. He's been a guest on here. And I know one of the things that he said was that when you comment, that it's a real comment, and it's yes, and, you know, you gave us 10 tips. Well, here's one more maybe that you could also consider. And so that you make it sort of yes, and. Mhmm.
Sophie Lechner [00:22:34]:
Yes. Absolutely. It's a good practice to ask a question at the end of your post, And it's also an excellent practice to go in and add something, you know, comment on your own post. So adding something, answer all the questions or all the, you know, respond to all the comments that have been made on your post. Because each interaction, even when it's yours responding, will generate this engagement that then LinkedIn will see and will help you build upon by showing it to more people.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:07]:
Okay. If I'm understanding you correctly, so when I comment on somebody else's post, if I comment on something that you've written, for instance, then my comment will be seen by your whole network. Correct?
Sophie Lechner [00:23:21]:
Yes. Exactly. Okay. Yep.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:24]:
And from that comment, might they then say, well, who is this
Sophie Lechner [00:23:30]:
person?
Susan Friedmann [00:23:30]:
You know? And maybe they might look at my profile.
Sophie Lechner [00:23:34]:
Exactly.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:35]:
Is that Mhmm. How it works? We're turning out pieces together here.
Sophie Lechner [00:23:40]:
Yes. In terms of the mechanics, that's what happens. People in my audience will see your profile and say, oh, I wonder who this Susan person is who commented on Sophie's post or even on somebody else's comment on my post. And then they'll check out your profile, and that will be based on the comment you made. It'll be based in small part on the picture. That's why it's good to have a very clear picture there. And the roughly 41st characters of what's in your headline because that's what appears when you comment. And based on that, the person will decide to look at your profile.
Sophie Lechner [00:24:16]:
That's where you want to then take them down what I call the rabbit hole of getting to know, like, and trust you. So you wanna have all kinds of goodies on your profile that really make them learn all about you and want to talk to you.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:31]:
Now when you comment, do you make any reference to yourself or invite people to comment on your comment? I mean, is that something? Or
Sophie Lechner [00:24:44]:
Those are all things that you can do to sort of boost the visibility of your post. First of all, you can tag certain people in your post. You wanna do that only when you know that there's a high likelihood that they will comment in turn. Because if you tag someone and they never comment, then it doesn't play in your favor in terms of LinkedIn numbers and all that. So you can tag there. You can tag people in your comments. And in fact, what you can do for example, when you're commenting on someone else's content, you can tag. So let's say we have a mutual friend, Rebecca.
Sophie Lechner [00:25:22]:
So if I see a post of yours that I find interesting that I know that Rebecca would be interested in, I will do at Rebecca and say, hey. This is a great post. Rebecca, I think you will enjoy it. And then Rebecca sees it. Right? So people can do that on your post. You can do that on other people's posts. You can do it in the comments to your own post. So you can tag them in the post, or you can tag some people after the fact.
Sophie Lechner [00:25:50]:
Let's say you left a comment on a post I made, and it's about something to do with author marketing. You say something relevant to what I posted, and all of a sudden when I see your comment, I think, you know what? Actually, what Susan just said, Philip over there would really appreciate hearing that perspective. And so I tag Philip, and I say, hey. What do you think what Susan just said? And then now this is where the fun comes in because then Philip comes in, and he says this and that and the other. And you're like, now you 2 are gonna connect, and who knows what happens? Okay.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:25]:
Okay. So it is. It's a link. I mean, it's building blocks
Sophie Lechner [00:26:30]:
Mhmm. For
Susan Friedmann [00:26:30]:
all of this. Yes. I mean, I can see this. I think one of the things that I know that I need to do is to assign a certain amount of time every day
Sophie Lechner [00:26:43]:
Mhmm.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:44]:
That I just go in and look at LinkedIn because it's not on my radar.
Sophie Lechner [00:26:50]:
Oh, yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:51]:
I told my VA, he says, you've got some comments that I think you should respond to. Mhmm.
Sophie Lechner [00:26:56]:
Yeah. So I don't
Susan Friedmann [00:26:57]:
want to have to wait for that necessarily.
Sophie Lechner [00:27:00]:
Yes. No. You're absolutely right. In order to really make this work, you have to kind of check-in once a day is probably fine. I mean, I like to say once you have the whole process going, you've got a good profile, you know what you're posting, etcetera. I think 15 minutes twice a day is great. I think that's all you need. Of course, peoples who have a tendency to fall into rabbit holes and get lost and follow links here, there, and everywhere, of course, you could spend hours.
Sophie Lechner [00:27:29]:
I mean, there's no doubt that it can be dangerous. But if you want to discipline yourself and spend 15 minutes twice a day, and then that's it, and until the next time, that's enough. You know? You just check your messages, check your notifications, make some comments, respond, get into conversations, and you're good. I don't think you need to post more than once a week. And that goes against what some other LinkedIn trainers say, but that's I'll stick to it, and that's my recommendation. So once a week, maybe you spend a little bit more time because you're actually writing a post and posting it. Or ideally, you write your post, you know, you batch them, and you prepare a month worth of content, and then you post it every week. And that's it.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:12]:
And that's what we do. That's, like, I've written posts already for next month
Sophie Lechner [00:28:18]:
Right.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:19]:
That my BA will post. I think we do 3 times a week. Mhmm. I've got an article. I've got the podcast gets put on there. And Mhmm. And then for instance, when this goes live, I'll tag you on the podcast. Right.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:36]:
So we always do that with the guests. I think I've got one, tip type post that we do once a week. So I think we do 3 a week. Yeah.
Sophie Lechner [00:28:48]:
Right. So because you by the nature of your profession and because you have a podcast and all of this and you have a VA, you're able to put out more content than a lot of people. That's great. And I would say the value of putting out content is only as good as the time that you put in an engagement. Mhmm. I advise my clients to post once a week because I know that based on the time it takes them to write a post and post it and all of this and the time available to them, I have this rule of thumb. Any unit of time that you spend preparing content and putting it up, you need to spend 3 times that amount of time engaging on the platform. If you're a solopreneur, don't have a lot of time, and it's hard for you to come up with a post, you spend an hour writing and posting, which when you're in the beginning and you're not a writer, it's already a pretty short amount.
Sophie Lechner [00:29:51]:
A lot of people take longer. You spend an hour, that means 3 hours engaging. Think about it. That's a lot of time in a certain way.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:57]:
Oh, it is. For me, that would be a time suck. I don't have 3 hours to do that.
Sophie Lechner [00:30:03]:
Exactly. That's why I say start with once a week because that allows you to get into this habit of having your engagement time be much bigger, 3 times, whatever. That's just the number I pulled out of a hat, but it's a lot more time on engagement than on content. And once you've mastered that and gotten the benefits of that engagement, then you can step it up and do another post a week and more engagement. So for you, the math would be a little different, but the principle would be there.
Susan Friedmann [00:30:34]:
The principle is the same. Mhmm. Sophie, I have let time run away from us. I mean, it's been so fascinating. Now's the time for you to share with our listeners how they can find out more about you and the magnet model, which sounds fascinating. Yes. I know I've been playing devil's advocate here, but you've done really well with it. How can they find you?
Sophie Lechner [00:31:01]:
Yes. So you can learn all about my programs and myself and the model and everything else at the magnet model dot com. And I believe, Susan, you will put the link in the show notes.
Susan Friedmann [00:31:14]:
I will do that.
Sophie Lechner [00:31:15]:
You can reach me anytime by email at [email protected]. I have a little quiz because I know that your listeners are probably all over the map in terms of do they like LinkedIn? Do they not? Do they use LinkedIn? Do they not use LinkedIn? So I have a quiz that would help you. It's called what kind of LinkedIn user are you? And it really walks you through some questions that end up in you being, you know, a novice or a champion or an explorer. But more importantly, and with some actions that you can take for that result. But more importantly, as you go through the questions, you'll get ideas of the types of things you could be doing on LinkedIn to maximize it further. I've been told it's a very fun quiz, so I'll give you the link and you can put it in the show notes.
Susan Friedmann [00:32:05]:
Fabulous. And I'll put that in the show notes. And I'm halfway through doing the quiz. And so far, I'm like, oh, this is good. I'll tell you what I like is you tell me that I'm a third of the way through, and I'm halfway through it. I'm like, okay. I know there's going to be an end, but I'm halfway through. So
Sophie Lechner [00:32:23]:
Yes. And it if you do it in one sitting, you can get it done in under 10 minutes. But, yeah, if you get interrupted, at least you'll remember where you are.
Susan Friedmann [00:32:32]:
Exactly. Sophie, as you know, we always end up with our guests leaving our listeners with a golden nugget. So what's yours?
Sophie Lechner [00:32:42]:
It's really this idea of anytime you're feeling reluctance for LinkedIn, for marketing, is really to remember your potential clients and your mission and how you can help them. And once you go to that place in your mind and in your heart, everything is possible. Yeah. That's what I think is at the heart of all of it.
Susan Friedmann [00:33:05]:
Yeah. And that's exciting. And I think that's something that's definitely been missing from my mindset with regard to it. I've got to get over the time suckers. Like, okay, it's got a purpose, and it's serving my clients. I mean, I serve them in so many other ways. Why can't I do that on LinkedIn? I really appreciate just that little mindset change, which is well needed. Sophie, you've been amazing, and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom about your magnet model.
Susan Friedmann [00:33:40]:
It's fabulous. And listeners, I know you're going to want to listen to this a few times because there were so many great nuggets that, Sophie shared with us. By the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected it to, let's you and I jump on a call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to Narrator [00:00:07]:
If you're an author or plan to be 1, get excited because this podcast is for you. Book Marketing Mentors is the only podcast dedicated to helping you successfully market and sell your book. If you're ready for empowering conversations with successful marketing mavens, then grab a coffee or tea and listen in to your host, international best selling author, Susan Friedman.
Susan Friedmann [00:00:31]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Sophie Lechner. Sophie helps mission driven entrepreneurs find their audience on LinkedIn and build relationships with them so that they can spread their message and grow their business. Her 20 year presence on LinkedIn has led to speaking engagements, podcast invitations, clients, and a Forbes interview. With her signature method, the magnet model, entrepreneurs can stop the never ending chase for clients and replace it with a joyful sharing of their gifts with dream clients they attract like magnet. Wow. Sophie, welcome to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Sophie Lechner [00:01:33]:
Thank you, Susan. Thanks for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:37]:
I'm so excited about it too because as you and I were talking a little bit before we went on the air, we've had a lot of interviews with people who are experts in LinkedIn. What attracts me so much to you is that you've got this incredibly successful magnet model, and I'm, like, I'm intrigued. I mean, just the name of it is it's like a magnet. I mean, it's like drawing people in. They want to know more, and you're attracting dream clients, and your clients are attracting dream clients. So let's jump in and start talking about this and dig deeper so that our listeners can just get a taste of your wisdom and, of course, your magnet models. Let's start off. What exactly is this magnet model?
Sophie Lechner [00:02:30]:
Yes. Thank you, Susan, for asking me this. It's something that I've developed. It's a kind of a framework to think about how to approach LinkedIn. In all honesty, it's really something you can use to approach all of your marketing. Over the years, I found that entrepreneurs are often kind of they get stuck in this opposition between their client work that they love, and they wish they could spend all of their time there. And then the other stuff, the marketing, the admin. But the marketing is like a huge part, and it's really this thing that they wish they didn't have to do, but they kind of are sort of stuck having to do.
Sophie Lechner [00:03:11]:
I found that the real way to be successful on LinkedIn you know, I've been on LinkedIn for 20 years, and I did all these things. You mentioned a couple of them. And I tried to go back and say, okay. What was it that was doing that worked so well in those years when I was recruiting, you know, a 150 faculty members for my business or gone to Forbes, all those things. And then I took all this and I distilled it down to this model that I think really, really helps people to approach LinkedIn in an entirely different way, different mindset, if you will. And following the model, they're able to have this success That's getting
Susan Friedmann [00:04:04]:
That's getting me excited because I know that one of the biggest roadblocks in using LinkedIn is the fact of just understanding the platform and being able to use it to help grow your business, which I know is what it's really all about. But knowing how to work that and enjoy it at the same time, I'd love to feel that I enjoy my experience there. And at the moment, I can't say that I really do.
Sophie Lechner [00:04:37]:
Yes. Exactly. And, you know, over these years that I've been doing the LinkedIn coaching specifically for mission driven entrepreneurs, I have really come across this situation many, many times. People just doing LinkedIn because they have to and not enjoying it. In the end, when you think about it, anything that you don't enjoy is just basically not really sustainable because after a while, you're gonna burn out or you're gonna stop doing it or you're not gonna do it in an effective way. Right? So you really need to do this in a way that is satisfying, gives you the professional satisfaction of your client work, you know, is similar. The way the the model works is really it's not about how to use LinkedIn. It's about what you bring to LinkedIn and to your marketing that makes it different.
Sophie Lechner [00:05:28]:
So it's a Venn diagram with 3 parts. It's It's mission, message, and movement. The first component is mission, and it's about reembodying the fact that regardless what your competitors are offering or doing or thinking, you have something that is absolutely unique to you, which is your mission and your experience and your perspective and your expertise. All of that together is a package, and there is no one else like you. So it's not about competing, it's about focusing on your mission and the big thing you want to do in the world, the way you want to help people. That's the mission part. The message is, yes, about the message, but it's deeper than that. It's really about completely and deeply understanding your clients, your audience, your customers so that you can really get in there.
Sophie Lechner [00:06:25]:
And with your content and your profile, but mostly your content, it's really address the beliefs that they have. So sometimes it could be limiting beliefs, or it could be just that they're not aware of what they're thinking about the thing that you help with. And you need to bring them to this point where they believe certain things that will allow them to even seek help. Really understanding not only their motivations, but what they're not even conscious of that needs to be explored and understood and come to the surface of their consciousness so they can then get help. So the message and then the movement is really you can start a movement and, you know, have a a community and a group and all this, but this component is more about the mindset of really putting your mission in front of you. Because a lot of the entrepreneurs I speak to feel uncomfortable putting themselves forward, and they feel that everything they do on LinkedIn and in their marketing is self promotional, and so they resist it. But if you are passionate about something and you have this mission and you put it in front of you, that's what you are selling to the world. It's much easier to then talk about it, and you can really be advocating for the mission and being there to help people.
Sophie Lechner [00:07:47]:
That makes you much more bold. It allows you to really step into your power, enlist, you know, advocates and champions and people who can really then join into broadening this message and communicating it out there.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:03]:
That is so fabulous because what that does, as you were going through all of that, Sophie, you know, the message, the mission, or the mission, the message, and then the movement, is exactly, you know, I just saw the book. I mean, this is what the authors who I work with, this is exactly what we talk about. We talk about what do they want their book to do for them, which I see as the mission. And then the message, what is the message that they want to put out there in the marketplace? And many of my clients want to start a movement with their message because they feel that it needs to be ongoing. It's broader. It encompasses so many different things. And, yes, you're looking at it in terms of client understanding. What do they need? What are the misconceptions, the myths? Or as you said, they may not even know what they don't know.
Sophie Lechner [00:09:04]:
Exactly. Yes. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:07]:
It's beautiful. That fits in so well with a book. So let's talk about that with regard to a book and then using that book to put messages out to your target within LinkedIn, How do you advocate people use this information?
Sophie Lechner [00:09:30]:
The one thing to know is that the sooner you start using LinkedIn, the more benefit you will get over time. There's this snowball effect that is undeniable. So if you're thinking of writing a book, then start posting on LinkedIn and have it beefing up your profile and posting on LinkedIn so you could start the conversation. Because we all know, and book writing is same as marketing and other endeavors, The more conversations you have with people, the more you will fine tune your thinking, your message, and how to verbalize it. Right? The sooner you start on LinkedIn, the better you can then sort of feed your book, if you will. But regardless at what stage you are of your book writing, you can use LinkedIn to market your book, to launch your book, to recruit your launch team, you know, your beta readers, all those things that you can do with LinkedIn. And it's interesting. If you want, we could discuss this.
Sophie Lechner [00:10:32]:
You can use LinkedIn in the process of writing your book, and you can use your book in the process of using LinkedIn. So there's, like, different complementary strategies based on where you are with your book. I'll stop there for now.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:49]:
Let's look at it from the standpoint of the book is out there. It's been published. Maybe they've launched it, or maybe they're in the the throes of launching the book, but for the most part, my clients at least have got their book out there. And maybe LinkedIn is a new platform, or they've been on LinkedIn, but they really haven't been on LinkedIn. They've been hidden. They're sort of a well kept secret. Started with us?
Sophie Lechner [00:11:25]:
If they have a book and it's been out and they are relatively new to LinkedIn, or as you say, there's a lot of ghosts on LinkedIn. Right? People who put a a profile there and then never looked at it again. So the first thing is really to create a profile, you know, a live profile, meaning well documented and that has everything you need in it that really captures who you are, what your perspective is, what you do. I mean, your book could be completely aligned with what you do, or it could be, you know, sort of a a side, thing. But either way, you need to really talk about what you do and your audience and what your book is about and how it fits in with the rest of who you are. Very importantly, you know, we talked about the mission. Sharing your mission in your profile is very important to be able to engage people in conversation. In other words, when they come across you, you want to make them want to talk to you.
Sophie Lechner [00:12:27]:
It's really putting your best foot forward and putting as much on there that can build the know, like, and trust factor so that they want to engage with you. And then the second step is I mean, there's a few other things as well, but the other big component is the content. And, of course, if you have a book, it's tempting to take little extracts of your book and put them out there. If that's all you do in the beginning, I'd say go ahead and do that and refine your approach over time. But I think a more effective approach is to really not necessarily follow the outline of how you wrote the book or how the book is developed, but think about the audience for the book. The book is your product. Right? You want people to read it. So it's really taking your audience before they even know that they need this book.
Sophie Lechner [00:13:22]:
It's a little meta. Right? So you kind of go back to the people who haven't read your book and think about what are they thinking now that might make them believe that they don't need this book. Right? And then what do they need to believe in order to want to read this book? And then you post some content that answers that question. Like in other words, what do they need to know and understand and believe in order to get to a point where they want to read this book? You can share some little nuggets that are in the book as sort of teasers, But, really, that's what you want to do is and, you know, I'm talking to the author marketer here, so you're probably nodding your head like crazy because it's really you want to make
Susan Friedmann [00:14:08]:
people want your book and your content. You talked about this know, like, and trust factor that you're always looking to build that. Mhmm. How do you build that with, you know, you're talking about putting out information that answers some of the challenges. Or maybe even as we said, they don't know that they really need what you're offering. And so you're explaining it in articles maybe. But that interaction, because I know through LinkedIn, the big thing is that conversation and getting into conversation with people. Where does that fall into all of this? How do you get that started and yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:55]:
Yes. Let's start with that.
Sophie Lechner [00:14:57]:
I love that you brought this up because the profile and the content are but a means to an end. And the end being the conversations, the end and the beginning, of course. You know? But it's the conversations is what we want. And the profile and the content are sort of your ways of being present on the platform so that anybody who comes across your content to your profile and the rest of your content can immediately learn about you, see you maybe in a video, go through that process of being intrigued, finding out a little bit more, deciding you wanna dig a little bit more, spend more time, go down the rabbit hole of getting to know you through your content and your profile. And that's how they gradually would get to like and trust you as well. And the way to get from this initial, if you will, intellectual exercise of going down the rabbit hole to get to know you and bridge that to the conversation is really with engagement. And engagement is the whole point of content. Mostly with posts, you want your post to be really short and really snappy and really sort of intrigue people into wanting to learn more.
Sophie Lechner [00:16:17]:
You ask an engagement questions. You talk about something and you say, well, what do you think about this? A little bit more specific than that, but have you noticed this, or what do you do when you notice this? And gradually, the people in your audience start to answer. Or maybe in the beginning, they just like or, you know, put a reaction, and you engage with them and say, you know, thanks for liking my post, and I'd love to, you know, know more. You go on their profile. You see what they post. You comment on their post. And there's this conversational dance that starts happening between your comment on their post, their comments on your post. And after a while, there's a few interactions.
Sophie Lechner [00:16:58]:
You get to kind of begin to know each other, and you can connect. At some point, it just makes sense to go to a private message conversation. So you you deepen the relationship a little bit through that. So a couple of back and forth in the DMs, and then you can say, you know, let's get on a call and see of course, you don't do this with everybody, but, you know, there's this kind of, I hate to use the word funnel because that's has other connotations. But you start these conversations with all the people who comment, and then gradually, you win a way down to those you think you would benefit from having a conversation with. And then you say, well, let's get on a call. So that's how you go through that process of the know, like, and trust factor.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:43]:
Keeping that in mind, which is great, I'm still sort of searching for, how does one fall in love with doing this? Because I know that that's something that so many of your clients talk about is that Sophie made me fall in love with, you know, using LinkedIn. And I was like, okay, I want what they've got, but I want to enjoy the process. So, yeah, how can I enjoy that?
Sophie Lechner [00:18:09]:
It's a multipart process, but I would say the first part is really to going back to the basics of the model that I talked about in the beginning. It's refocusing entirely on your mission. A lot of us mission driven entrepreneurs were really, really driven by what we can do to help. And anytime you're in your mind thinking, oh, I gotta do this. I have to post. I don't like it. And if you switch that attitude and look at, well, what could I help someone figure out today? The same thing that we do with our clients because this is what we like to do. We want to help.
Sophie Lechner [00:18:48]:
This is what brings us joy. You want to do the same thing, but with the people on LinkedIn. LinkedIn to help someone who you don't know, they're faceless. And so when you embody this sort of generosity and this curiosity, you're able to go on LinkedIn and rather than looking inward at all the things that block us, if you let yourself be generous and curious, you are able to then connect with this part of you that gets excited, that's happy to do this work, and that helps. And the second biggest contributor after that is when you start to get people to comment on your posts. And then it's like this faceless platform that is on this computer in front of you, all of a sudden takes on this human dimension. It's like, oh, somebody commented, hey, there's a human there. And then you have this back and forth with them, and you get into what they're saying, and they might be saying something interesting, and this happens again and again, well, lo and behold, that's actually really fun.
Susan Friedmann [00:19:55]:
Yeah. Once they start interacting that for the most part, I either get, that was really nice, that was very interesting, or it's just a heart or, you know, sums up. And I'm like, that isn't helping me. That isn't giving me anything quantifiable that I can go back and say, well, maybe tell me more. What did you find interesting? I suppose I could do that. I'm not sure.
Sophie Lechner [00:20:33]:
Help me with that. Then this comes down to the art and science of, creating content that will actually resonate with your audience, that will captivate them, that will compel them to engage with it. And art and science, like I said, because, yes, there are templates, there are formulas, and then you tweak and tweak over time. But there are ways to really get more interaction from your audience. A big part of it has to do with the size of your network. So you always want to be connecting with everybody you know, everybody you meet so that you have as many connections as possible because it's not even so much about who you're connected with that will see your message, but who they are connected with. So when somebody comments or reacts, all of their network will see your post. That's where the snowball effect happens in terms of views is having a lot of people in your network and continuing to build that.
Sophie Lechner [00:21:35]:
And then the comments is the other way. And you can in the beginning, when you're not having a lot of engagement, you can ask a few friends to go and comment on your post just to kind of get the ball rolling and show the algorithm that this is content that's being engaged, that's receiving engagement just to get the pump started, if you will. And then after that, it will start happening.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:59]:
That's fascinating because I know that, happening I know that and I'm trying to think of his last name. Richard Bliss. He's been a guest on here. And I know one of the things that he said was that when you comment, that it's a real comment, and it's yes, and, you know, you gave us 10 tips. Well, here's one more maybe that you could also consider. And so that you make it sort of yes, and. Mhmm.
Sophie Lechner [00:22:34]:
Yes. Absolutely. It's a good practice to ask a question at the end of your post, And it's also an excellent practice to go in and add something, you know, comment on your own post. So adding something, answer all the questions or all the, you know, respond to all the comments that have been made on your post. Because each interaction, even when it's yours responding, will generate this engagement that then LinkedIn will see and will help you build upon by showing it to more people.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:07]:
Okay. If I'm understanding you correctly, so when I comment on somebody else's post, if I comment on something that you've written, for instance, then my comment will be seen by your whole network. Correct?
Sophie Lechner [00:23:21]:
Yes. Exactly. Okay. Yep.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:24]:
And from that comment, might they then say, well, who is this
Sophie Lechner [00:23:30]:
person?
Susan Friedmann [00:23:30]:
You know? And maybe they might look at my profile.
Sophie Lechner [00:23:34]:
Exactly.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:35]:
Is that Mhmm. How it works? We're turning out pieces together here.
Sophie Lechner [00:23:40]:
Yes. In terms of the mechanics, that's what happens. People in my audience will see your profile and say, oh, I wonder who this Susan person is who commented on Sophie's post or even on somebody else's comment on my post. And then they'll check out your profile, and that will be based on the comment you made. It'll be based in small part on the picture. That's why it's good to have a very clear picture there. And the roughly 41st characters of what's in your headline because that's what appears when you comment. And based on that, the person will decide to look at your profile.
Sophie Lechner [00:24:16]:
That's where you want to then take them down what I call the rabbit hole of getting to know, like, and trust you. So you wanna have all kinds of goodies on your profile that really make them learn all about you and want to talk to you.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:31]:
Now when you comment, do you make any reference to yourself or invite people to comment on your comment? I mean, is that something? Or
Sophie Lechner [00:24:44]:
Those are all things that you can do to sort of boost the visibility of your post. First of all, you can tag certain people in your post. You wanna do that only when you know that there's a high likelihood that they will comment in turn. Because if you tag someone and they never comment, then it doesn't play in your favor in terms of LinkedIn numbers and all that. So you can tag there. You can tag people in your comments. And in fact, what you can do for example, when you're commenting on someone else's content, you can tag. So let's say we have a mutual friend, Rebecca.
Sophie Lechner [00:25:22]:
So if I see a post of yours that I find interesting that I know that Rebecca would be interested in, I will do at Rebecca and say, hey. This is a great post. Rebecca, I think you will enjoy it. And then Rebecca sees it. Right? So people can do that on your post. You can do that on other people's posts. You can do it in the comments to your own post. So you can tag them in the post, or you can tag some people after the fact.
Sophie Lechner [00:25:50]:
Let's say you left a comment on a post I made, and it's about something to do with author marketing. You say something relevant to what I posted, and all of a sudden when I see your comment, I think, you know what? Actually, what Susan just said, Philip over there would really appreciate hearing that perspective. And so I tag Philip, and I say, hey. What do you think what Susan just said? And then now this is where the fun comes in because then Philip comes in, and he says this and that and the other. And you're like, now you 2 are gonna connect, and who knows what happens? Okay.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:25]:
Okay. So it is. It's a link. I mean, it's building blocks
Sophie Lechner [00:26:30]:
Mhmm. For all of this.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:30]:
Yes. I mean, I can see this. I think one of the things that I know that I need to do is to assign a certain amount of time every day I go in and look at LinkedIn because it's not on my radar.
Sophie Lechner [00:26:50]:
Oh, yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:51]:
I told my VA, she says, you've got some comments I think you should respond to. Mhmm.
Sophie Lechner [00:26:56]:
Yeah. So I don't
Susan Friedmann [00:26:57]:
want to have to wait for that necessarily.
Sophie Lechner [00:27:00]:
Yes. No. You're absolutely right. In order to really make this work, you have to kind of check-in once a day is probably fine. I mean, I like to say once you have the whole process going, you've got a good profile, you know what you're posting, etcetera. I think 15 minutes twice a day is great. I think that's all you need. Of course, peoples who have a tendency to fall into rabbit holes and get lost and follow links here, there, and everywhere, of course, you could spend hours.
Sophie Lechner [00:27:29]:
I mean, there's no doubt that it can be dangerous. But if you want to discipline yourself and spend 15 minutes twice a day, and then that's it, and until the next time, that's enough. You know? You just check your messages, check your notifications, make some comments, respond, get into conversations, and you're good. I don't think you need to post more than once a week. And that goes against what some other LinkedIn trainers say, but that's I'll stick to it, and that's my recommendation. So once a week, maybe you spend a little bit more time because you're actually writing a post and posting it. Or ideally, you write your post, you know, you batch them, and you prepare a month worth of content, and then you post it every week. And that's it.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:12]:
And that's what we do. That's, like, I've written posts already for next month
Sophie Lechner [00:28:18]:
Right.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:19]:
That my BA will post. I think we do 3 times a week. Mhmm. I've got an article. I've got the podcast gets put on there. And Mhmm. And then for instance, when this goes live, I'll tag you on the podcast. Right.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:36]:
So we always do that with the guests. I think I've got one, tip type post that we do once a week. So I think we do 3 a week. Yeah.
Sophie Lechner [00:28:48]:
Right. So because you by the nature of your profession and because you have a podcast and all of this and you have a VA, you're able to put out more content than a lot of people. That's great. And I would say the value of putting out content is only as good as the time that you put in an engagement. Mhmm. I advise my clients to post once a week because I know that based on the time it takes them to write a post and post it and all of this and the time available to them, I have this rule of thumb. Any unit of time that you spend preparing content and putting it up, you need to spend 3 times that amount of time engaging on the platform. If you're a solopreneur, don't have a lot of time, and it's hard for you to come up with a post, you spend an hour writing and posting, which when you're in the beginning and you're not a writer, it's already a pretty short amount.
Sophie Lechner [00:29:51]:
A lot of people take longer. You spend an hour, that means 3 hours engaging. Think about it. That's a lot of time in a certain way.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:57]:
Oh, it is. For me, that would be a time suck. I don't have 3 hours to do that.
Sophie Lechner [00:30:03]:
Exactly. That's why I say start with once a week because that allows you to get into this habit of having your engagement time be much bigger, 3 times, whatever. That's just the number I pulled out of a hat, but it's a lot more time on engagement than on content. And once you've mastered that and gotten the benefits of that engagement, then you can step it up and do another post a week and more engagement. So for you, the math would be a little different, but the principle would be there.
Susan Friedmann [00:30:34]:
The principle is the same. Mhmm. Sophie, I have let time run away from us. I mean, it's been so fascinating. Now's the time for you to share with our listeners how they can find out more about you and the magnet model, which sounds fascinating. Yes. I know I've been playing devil's advocate here, but you've done really well with it. How can they find you?
Sophie Lechner [00:31:01]:
Yes. So you can learn all about my programs and myself and the model and everything else at the magnet model dot com. And I believe, Susan, you will put the link in the show notes.
Susan Friedmann [00:31:14]:
I will do that.
Sophie Lechner [00:31:15]:
You can reach me anytime by email at [email protected]. I have a little quiz because I know that your listeners are probably all over the map in terms of do they like LinkedIn? Do they not? Do they use LinkedIn? Do they not use LinkedIn? So I have a quiz that would help you. It's called what kind of LinkedIn user are you? And it really walks you through some questions that end up in you being, you know, a novice or a champion or an explorer. But more importantly, and with some actions that you can take for that result. But more importantly, as you go through the questions, you'll get ideas of the types of things you could be doing on LinkedIn to maximize it further. I've been told it's a very fun quiz, so I'll give you the link and you can put it in the show notes.
Susan Friedmann [00:32:05]:
Fabulous. And I'll put that in the show notes. And I'm halfway through doing the quiz. And so far, I'm like, oh, this is good. I'll tell you what I like is you tell me that I'm a third of the way through, and I'm halfway through it. I'm like, okay. I know there's going to be an end, but I'm halfway through. So
Sophie Lechner [00:32:23]:
Yes. And it if you do it in one sitting, you can get it done in under 10 minutes. But, yeah, if you get interrupted, at least you'll remember where you are.
Susan Friedmann [00:32:32]:
Exactly. Sophie, as you know, we always end up with our guests leaving our listeners with a golden nugget. So what's yours?
Sophie Lechner [00:32:42]:
It's really this idea of anytime you're feeling reluctance for LinkedIn, for marketing, is really to remember your potential clients and your mission and how you can help them. And once you go to that place in your mind and in your heart, everything is possible. Yeah. That's what I think is at the heart of all of it.
Susan Friedmann [00:33:05]:
Yeah. And that's exciting. And I think that's something that's definitely been missing from my mindset with regard to it. I've got to get over the time suckers. Like, okay, it's got a purpose, and it's serving my clients. I mean, I serve them in so many other ways. Why can't I do that on LinkedIn? I really appreciate just that little mindset change, which is well needed. Sophie, you've been amazing, and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom about your magnet model.
Susan Friedmann [00:33:40]:
It's fabulous. And listeners, I know you're going to want to listen to this a few times because there were so many great nuggets that, Sophie shared with us.
By the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected it to, let's you and I jump on a call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to bookmarketingbrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books.
Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success. to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
Take Sophie's quiz to discover "What Kind of LinkedIn User Are You?"
