Susan Friedmann [00:00:31]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is a renowned entrepreneur, Accomplished author and an expert in the world of networking. Robert Butwin has a remarkable track record and has made substantial contributions to the direct sales industry. He stands as a prominent figure in the field. His wealth of experience spans several decades during which he's achieved remarkable success. He's not only a seasoned entrepreneur, he's also a prolific author and speaker.

Robert, It's an honor and a privilege to welcome you to the show.
Thank you for agreeing to be this week's guest expert and mentor.

Robert Butwin [00:01:30]:

My pleasure, and I'm looking forward to sharing some insights, some things that I've learned through a long level of experience that will really help Everybody take whatever they're doing to go to the next level.

Susan Friedmann [00:01:44]:

Perfect. And that's all in relation to the art of networking, Which we've had several people on the show who I've interviewed about networking, but I know you've had so many years of experience with this, and you're so good at it. In fact, that's how you and I connected was Somebody networked and said, hey. I think you should meet Robert, and you've introduced me to people, and it's such a pleasure. So Let's dig into this whole idea, this whole topic of networking because it's something that we know we need to you, Robert. But, yeah, I think there's an element of fear that people have with this sort of connecting maybe with people they don't know. What about that? How should we even start the process?

Robert Butwin [00:02:35]:

One of the keys and you mentioned fear, and I love the fear, face everything in RISE. The point is, you know, when I started networking back in 1983 and part of my backstory of how I started and why I started is coming out of Minnesota. At that point in time and always appreciated following different sports teams, the Minnesota Golfers, And that was the the college I graduated from. Minnesota Golfers had a record of 1 win and all the rest losses. They were outscored by their opponents 3 to 1. The person that I look at as the grandfather in networking, Harvey MacKay, who wrote the book "Dig Your Well Before You're Thirsty," he brought in a pristine person to Turn around the Minnesota Gophers, which was Lou Holtz. And within 2 years, he had ended up having them go to one of the ball games. But, You know, he did that through networking, and I heard the expression that your network is in direct relationship to the value of your network.

Robert Butwin [00:03:36]:

So At that point, I decided to take networking extremely serious back in 1983. And I've gone on, and it's made me a lot of money. But It's also helped me develop really good relationships with some amazing people, which we can talk about later. But I think about when I started. For example, when I started, even though I thought I was an extrovert as I really started to realize I wasn't an extrovert. I was what people would refer to as a situational extrovert. I learned to get out of my comfort level And do the things necessary that would allow me to create the success that I was looking to create in my life.

Susan Friedmann [00:04:19]:

Yeah. I love that. And I mean, Harvey Mackay. Oh, I know Harvey through the National Speakers Association. What a great guy. And, also, as you rightly say, he is an amazing networker. Over the years, The people that he's attracted to him, it just goes on and on. I love the idea of being a situational extrovert.

I think that's fun. I never even thought about that. And I think there's an element of that that, You know, I carry as well because I always thought that I was an extrovert, and I think in my twenties, thirties, forties, I was much more of 1, but as I've aged over the years, I was like, I've tended towards being more of an introvert, But yet I still enjoy meeting people, and people who I interview on this show are amazing, Amazing people. So, yes, let's talk more about this whole idea of strategies when it comes to networking. I think one of the things for me, and I'm hoping that's true with our listeners, is you form a relationship with somebody. You've been introduced to them. How do you keep that relationship going?

Robert Butwin [00:05:39]:

The key to keeping a relationship going is you always focus on been of service and value, and it's gotten a lot easier today because of the fact that we're in the informational age. One of the guys that has created a whole system and he's done it for a long period of time is a guy named Tom Gay. And he originally created a company called refer.com. Now it's engagepro.com because he sold to refer.com a long time ago. But as you're getting to know somebody, One of the biggest mistakes that people make when they're networking, they're singular focused transactional, And that's a big mistake. You want to be more focused on collaborations. It's not necessarily who you're meeting, but if you develop the right relationship With the right people, it's who they can lead you to. I mean, back when I started off, they used to talk about the 6th degree of separation.

Robert Butwin [00:06:33]:

Well, forget the 6 degree of separation. Today, it's like 1 degree of separation. You know, with social media and people that are out there, If you're developing quality relationships, they will introduce you and open the door to the right people. The key that you wanna ask yourself, When you're networking, is my net working when I'm networking? Meaning, are you developing the right relationships, or are you just continually doing the wrong things and continually just out there networking, but not getting the kind of results that you're really looking for. So the way to develop long term relationships and what I Take a look at, and it goes back to the college in Southern California, USC, which is understand you're speaking to by asking the right questions. Don't think about focused on transaction. If you do things properly, They will either open the door or have the right kind of collaboration. So I wanna understand.

Robert Butwin [00:07:32]:

It's like, what do you do? What are you doing to expand your network? Ask those kind of questions of who, what, why, where, and when, and focus on the s, which is be of service and value. One of the key things that has allowed me to create the kind of success for a long period of time is reciprocity. I'm I'm focused on how can I give the person something based on the fact that I've understanding them, understanding what I can do? For example, Susan, when you and I met, I start asking questions, and I reintroduced you to a long time acquaintance of yours. So that's part of how you can be of service or value, or you can guide them to some digital information or I mean, there's multiple different ways that you can do it. And then the c in the USC is focus on that human to human connection. Think about collaborations. So, again, USC, you know, focus on being of value, and people are much more intuitive today than ever before. They can tell if the only thing that you're thinking about is transactions, And then they're gonna resist developing a solid relationship.

Susan Friedmann [00:08:38]:

Yeah. Value reciprocity, Focus on that idea of service. I think that's so cool. I know that I have this conversation with many authors. You know, they say They want to go out there and just tell people, you know, they've written a book. Don't you want to buy the book type of thing. And I'm like, no. No.No.

People are not interested in buying books. They're buying what that book's going to do for them, the value that that book is going to give them. But that value also comes from the author because the author authored this book and has shared, strategies that have worked, proven techniques in certain industries, certain areas of expertise, just like, you know, you and networking. One of the things that you touched on, and I want to dig deeper in, are the mistakes that we make in this environment, Robert, Because it's open to mistakes. Let's talk about some of the common mistakes that you find when people get involved or And with the whole idea of networking.

Robert Butwin [00:09:45]:

Sure. First of all, one of the biggest mistakes is they're not branding themselves. You wanna brand yourself. The book is just an extension of yourself. You wanna maybe tell your story, the purpose of why you ultimately Wrote the book for whatever reason that is, but, you know, the other part of the mistakes is they're too focused on transactions rather than collaborations. Networking's like opening a bank account. You need to make deposits before you can make withdrawals. If you're just out thinking about me, me, me, You know, it's how you're creating a team.

Robert Butwin [00:10:24]:

You know, when I'm networking, I focus on developing a team of people so that I can outsource the things that I don't wanna do. I like to stay in my state of genius, which is connecting and being of value to other people. The biggest mistake that they make is they're too focused on the transaction because, again, it goes back to what I mentioned. You know, the 6 degrees of separation, If people really understand your heart, what you're passionate about, why you're doing what you're doing, they're gonna be more likely to introduce you to the right people.

Susan Friedmann [00:11:00]:

Yes. I totally agree with that. I love this analogy Of opening a bank account and you have to make deposits rather than just focusing on the withdrawals. I mean, that is just Perfect for this. Really love that. I think that something else that you mentioned, staying in your state of genius Rather than thinking, oh, I have to be all things to all people, which often is the case, especially in the beginning when you're starting your own business or You've written your book and, yes, I think that's something too that people get caught up in And being focused on being them focused rather than you focused, which I believe is What you've been saying too is just focus on the other person. Find out more about them, what they're interested in. What's another big mistake, Robert?

Robert Butwin [00:11:57]:

Part of what people wanna be taking a look at, especially as authors, it's like When you're talking with people, you know, and it's like, when you and I met, I've got a whole list of different Zoom accounts that people can network at. Like, how do you get on stages? A lot of the times, a lot of people are not developing a list. You want to, number 1, be always expanding your list of connections. And then a mistake that they make quite often with the networking that I see a lot of people make is they abuse their list. Meaning that, You know, today, we're all very busy. And I don't have time to look at somebody's email every single day, every single week. They're abusing their list. So as far as networking, you've gotta have clarity and intention.

Robert Butwin [00:12:43]:

It's to create meaningful relationships. And, again, if you're focused on being of service and value, people can tell that. So the mistakes that they're making is they're not Making that human to human connection, figuring out how they can really connect, asking the right questions, developing the right kind of relationships. And when you do that properly, consistently, you're gonna develop really meaningful relationships. Ex

Susan Friedmann [00:13:09]:

So then there's an element of mindset when you go into even networking, whether it's in person or whether it's online through social media or you and I met via Zoom, what's the mindset? What's that expectation of that, let's say, that 1st interaction.

Robert Butwin [00:13:29]:

My mindset is in the 1st interaction. I wanna get to know that other person. I know that there's something Because I've developed the resources, the wisdom, the insights that will help them, but I wanna know who they are, what they're doing, and how I can be of Value to them is my 1st mindset. And again, if they start asking you what you do, I keep it short and sweet. You You know, I'll tell people I'm an elite networker and a strategist because I wanna shift back to focus on them. It's not about me. I wanna figure out what can I do that will have value to them? You mentioned about in person networking, and that's where I cut my teeth out of, Of course. But, ultimately, in the in person networking, I see people get into these clicks, and they'll be talking too on to the same people Rather than, you know, being able to excuse themselves and say, it's been great to connect with you.

Robert Butwin [00:14:23]:

But in the meantime, let me continue networking so maybe I can find something that would be of benefit To you. So if your mindset is always benefit to the other person, how I can be of service and value and how I can Consistently position myself of doing that. And, again, it's having the patience. If you consistently do it for a long period of time, Ultimately, you're gonna meet the right people. It's like the old saying, you gotta kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince or princess. You know, you gotta shake a lot of hands. Knowing that if you consistently do it, the right people show up. There's an old saying, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

Robert Butwin [00:15:01]:

I've done it for a long period of time. And when I do it for a long period of time, ultimately, I'm gonna find and develop the right relationships and, You know, find the right people.

Susan Friedmann [00:15:12]:

One of the things that you demonstrated so beautifully, Robert, was How to disengage yourself from someone. I think, as you rightly said, especially in and this happens more than in the in person situation when you're networking that you're with somebody, you start this conversation, and then it's like, Well, I don't wanna spend the whole evening with this person or the whole afternoon. I want to get around, but being able to disengage, You know, sort of very strategically and politely, I think people find really hard, That idea, I think you demonstrated that beautifully. And listeners, go back and listen to that again because Robert did a great job with that. So you've had this first interaction. You found out about this person. At what point do you say, Yes. I want to continue this relationship, or maybe this isn't the right relationship for me to put time and energy into.

Robert Butwin [00:16:21]:

Before I do that, I wanna go back to the mistake for something because something just came to play. Today, because most things are on Zoom. And even though I cut my teeth originally in the in person networking, I find it much more effective and efficient on Zoom. And so one of the big mistakes I see people make when they're networking on Zoom, they're trying to sell in these breakout rooms. The biggest thing that you really wanna do when you're networking on Zoom is say something one way or the other or Offer referrals to the other person or somehow, you know, if you see somebody that you haven't seen or that you know, Say something in the private chat, the great seeing you here. But the biggest mistake that I see people make on Zoom is the fact that they're trying to pitch on the 1st date rather than set it up for the follow-up. The fortune is in the follow-up or the follow through. The biggest thing that I do in the follow through which is going back to what you're talking about, Susan, is I wanna go deeper with the person.

Robert Butwin [00:17:27]:

I want to really understand What's going on in their world? And once I understand what's going on on their world and it goes back to reciprocity, I focus on what can I do that would be of value to them before I start off? And then, again, I'm watching to see where that is gonna go. I leave the door open. I'm gonna send something in the follow-up. You know, it's great connecting with you, and I look forward to our next conversation. And so my whole purpose is to be of service and value and set the stage for the next conversation.

Susan Friedmann [00:18:03]:

That's so important, that follow through, because you're right. I've seen this many times and been in umpteen breakout rooms where you're absolutely right, people. their little spiel, and part of that is, hey, let me tell you what I sell. As I said, I've got a book, So it's very transaction oriented. It's me focused rather than you focused. Part of that too is The introduction. I'm always interested how people introduce themselves. I think even in just that, Whatever that 1 or 2 lines is of their introduction, you can tell straight away, are they interested in making a connection to take this further as a relationship potentially, or are they just interested well, hey.

Maybe I can get you interested in the service or product that I'm selling.

Robert Butwin [00:19:01]:

Let me jump in about the introductions. I'll give everybody a couple of Real key ways to do it. 2 different ways. One of them, 7 keywords. The first 3 of the 7 is you know how. Many people when they're networking, it depends upon what you're doing, what follows those first three words. You You know how many people when they're networking are not making meaningful connections? What I do is are the next 4 words. What I do is Whatever relates to what that other person is, that's one way.

Robert Butwin [00:19:33]:

And I would like to offer you a complimentary, not a free, a complimentary 15 minute session where I can help you as it relates to what you're doing. So that's one thing that they can do. The second thing that I've learned is your pipe, your x P I p e. Your purpose is the first p. Your I is your interest. The 2nd p is your passion, And the 3rd p is your experience, and you can do that in 1 to 2 minutes. You gotta have simple, profound messaging. My purpose in relationship to what I do is to live a life of meaning based in helping other people.

Robert Butwin [00:20:07]:

I'm passionate about getting people real results. And then the interest my interest is the fact that I see many people do whatever. Actually, my interest is before the other p. I'm sorry. out of order. My experience is the fact that I've been networking for over 35 years. So, again, if you got some kind of format or foundation As it relates to and the more that you practice it. You know, I love acronyms.

Robert Butwin [00:20:35]:

I've got an acronym for pitch, which is p I t c h, practice and perfect your presentation, a Couple of different pieces. Your intention when you're pitching is to say something because the magic happens when you do the 1 on 1. So my intention is to say something that the person says I need to get to know that person. T is think about who you're speaking with because you've done your explorations. The c is clarity in your communications, focus on connections, and the h is how and why they wanna get back to you. When you're in a networking event, your whole focus is to set up the 1 on 1 so that you have a chance to get to know the other person. We met in a networking group, But unless we had the 1 on 1, we wouldn't be having this conversation today.

Susan Friedmann [00:21:22]:

Great. I'm a great believer in acronyms for things because that's what you remember. I mean, they're so fun. And those 7 keywords, brilliant, you know how, whatever, What I do is and this is great material just to start that conversation because I think that too is where people are not sure where to go. How do I start this conversation with someone rather than just blurting out, you know, hey. My name is Susan Friedman, and I run Aviva Publishing, and I publish books. It's all about me.

Robert Butwin [00:21:58]:

Exactly. And let me give you another example because it's about a person that you and I both know, Jim Feldman, when I originally met Jim, I said I'm an out-of-the-box thinker, And he very politely as politely as Jim ever does it, says that that's funny because I've made my whole living within the box thinking I'm gonna Bring this around too as it relates to networking. He says, if you're out of the box, all you can see is the outside of the box. You know, if your mindset is everybody that you're talking with has some kind of a problem. He says, I deal with in the box. You're understanding three d thinking. Understand the depth of the other person's problem. See if you're doing your proper exploration.

Robert Butwin [00:22:40]:

You're understanding where they're at. The second d is the distance to the solution, And the 3rd d as it relates to networking is the determination of them to solve their problem. For example, just yesterday, I was on a networking with somebody, and we're supposed to be in a breakout room for 5 minutes. Everybody's supposed to get, like, a minute and a half to talk. Well, this guy went on and went on, and finally, the other lady said, you know, first of all, you didn't answer the questions, and, ultimately, you just pitched us. Well, I started to try to answer the questions. I went back because it was still back of a pitch, and I said very politely, are you open to some feedback? The guy said yes. And so I started to very tactically, strategically give him the feedback, and he didn't really like the feedback, so he jumped off the call.

Robert Butwin [00:23:26]:

So, Again, that's not the kind of person that I'm gonna ever have any kind of a relationship with because, again, it goes back to what we've been Talk about here's 2 eye centered. A couple different examples.

Susan Friedmann [00:23:39]:

Oh, that's great. And that happens because you're right. They pay people Get offended if you're going to, as I say, give him feedback, but was he open? No. He wasn't open. You know, that fixed mindset and that growth mindset, Well, sounds as if he probably was of a fixed mindset. Robert, this has been Amazing. Such practical information. Listeners, just in the few minutes that I've had with Robert, I mean, You've gotten several different techniques, and I invite you to go back and listen to this brilliance.

And this is a great segue, Robert, for you to tell us how our audience members can get hold of you, And I believe you have a little something that you want to share with them.

Robert Butwin [00:24:30]:

I do. I've got a free gift that normally I sell for 495 dollars that will be complimentary to you based on whatever you're doing. I'm happy to demonstrate and help you as it relates to elevating and accelerating your success as it relates to you, and the best way to do that is to book a time on my calendar. It's calendly.com/butwin. And I will focus on what I can do to help you as it relates to what you're doing to accelerate and elevate the things in your life.

Susan Friedmann [00:25:09]:

That's beautiful. And that's a great way, listeners, to get a hold of Robert. And, really, he is so sincere. I mean, just every bone in his body, he really is just a true gentleman, and he's truly interested In how he can be of service. And that's one of the main reasons too that I invited him because that's the kind of Attitude and this idea of giving rather than just taking, which I think is something that runs through Many of the guests that I have on the show, can't say all of them, but most of them. Any of them. Robert, that's wonderful. And as you know, we always end of giving our listeners a golden nugget.

What would you like to share as your parting words of wisdom?

Robert Butwin [00:26:03]:

I'm gonna share 2 of them, which I talked about. First 1 is your net worth is in direct relationship to the value of your network, and it's something that you can definitely master. There's an art as it relates to networking, how you attract the right people into your life, How you retain the right relationships and the transformation they're gonna have because they've got a relationship with you. And the second one It's the fact that networking is like opening a bank account. You need to make deposits before you can make withdrawals.

Susan Friedmann [00:26:37]:

That one really just sticks in my mind. I can just visualize that. It's beautiful. Thank you really for Sharing your wisdom, your breadth and depth of experience. I know perhaps we've just put our toe in the water, but Listeners, there's more. Please do take Robert Arpad, you know, spending time with him and just learning more about How you might be able to form a relationship with this incredible gentleman. And by the way, Jim Feldman, who Robert mentioned earlier, We did an interview with him a few weeks ago. Go back and check that out too.

Susan Friedmann [00:27:16]:

He talked about the power of AI. So, Robert, thank you so much. And listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, Let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales. You've invested a whole lot of Time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to BrainstormWithSusan.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing.

Here's how to book your complimentary time session with Robert (value $495)