Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Viral Gor, also known as Virus the poet. He's a celebrated Canadian poet and author. His best selling collection, Poetry in Motion, Mind, Body, and Soul, earned international acclaim. Viral's captivating performances have graced stages in Paris, London, Toronto, New York, and many more places. His award winning poem Home, published by the Poetry Institute of Canada, highlights his distinguished career. Viral's work resonates globally, exploring themes that transcend cultural boundaries.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:01]:
Viral, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Viral Gor [00:01:09]:
Thanks for having me, Susan. I really appreciate your time. And, just having the opportunity to have a discussion with you about the book and my work, it's an honor to be here.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:17]:
I'm in awe of poets, and you especially, because I just love how poets are able to tell a story, paint a picture in just a few words. Something that a nonfiction author like myself might take 1, 2 pages to write, you can say in just a few lines. It just absolutely blows my mind.
Viral Gor [00:01:42]:
I try to be as concise as possible because I wanna get the message across in so little time because especially, as you know, in today's world, the attention span is much shorter than it was before. You know, I have that in mind when I'm writing my pieces or wanna articulate a message of some sort and say, hey, I wanna give this in a digestible way where it's short, quick, and easy. Therefore, you can take that away and just let it marinate.
Susan Friedmann [00:02:08]:
What inspired you to use poetry as your writing form of choice? I mean, it just seems very different, especially for someone who's made it and is so successful, which is really hard for a poet. Kudos to you for doing this.
Viral Gor [00:02:26]:
Yeah. Well, I appreciate you saying that because I still in my mind, I still don't think I've made it. But for me, poetry has always been a creative outlet. So I'm a big, music lover, and I love all types of music and hip hop and r and b and pop and jazz, and instrumentals have always been something I gravitate towards. And so growing up in environments where I would listen to music like that, it just became an experience of creativity and outlet. I used to draw as a child and that evolved into poetry because I had a message to say, but you know, poetry is a very vulnerable outlet. It's a very vulnerable art. Right? You're putting your emotions for the world to see and absorb and so that can be very nerve wracking.
Viral Gor [00:03:08]:
So for me, I just want to be able to articulate my experiences or transforming pain or struggle into something powerful and beautiful for the audience to soak in. But also, a lot of the poetry that I write, it's not always about me. It could be about someone else or another experience or something that I've witnessed on the side of the highway or throughout my travels, just experiencing, observing things and people. And I found poetry provided a need to explore and communicate these feelings that were otherwise difficult to express. And sometimes people have told me that I'm glad I read this or, you know, I heard this poem because I was feeling this way and I didn't know how to articulate it, and you captured exactly, in essence, what I want to say. So I think it's an intimate thing, for sure.
Susan Friedmann [00:03:55]:
It is. It really is. And thinking about different poems that I've read over the years, it is. But how do you even start? You know, you get an idea, but where do you start in terms of putting the words together? Yeah. That it creates this, as you say, this vulnerability, but yet also very descriptive.
Viral Gor [00:04:17]:
I mean,
Susan Friedmann [00:04:18]:
I think that's also so beautiful in poetry, that you can be so descriptive in just so few words.
Viral Gor [00:04:25]:
Right. What I learned early in my professional career was that if you want to send a message, you wanna do it in a short and concise method where you're not drawing it out and just taking over a conversation. You know, it's quick. It's easiest to the point. When I would start to write poetry, I had to kinda evolve into this where I can send a message or make you feel a way in a short amount of time because I'm not trying to give you fluff or filler. I'm really trying to provoke thought in your mind by giving you an idea in your mind and let your mind paint the picture as I say the words. When I was doing shows, oftentimes, I would say, close your eyes and open your ears because the idea was for you not to see me, but was to listen to the words that are being said so you can soak it up and find solace in the words. And I always wanted to give that the viewer, the listener, the watcher, the experience and impact of what a poem can do to them if they really reflect, absorb it.
Viral Gor [00:05:28]:
And so for me, I really start with either a word, an idea, an experience, or just an overwhelming emotion. And sometimes that's where it starts. Sometimes it just starts with the instrumental or song that catches my attention. Even this conversation here, I might take this away and I might write a poem based on it because of how great the conversation is. Right? So that's what it is for me. What is it for you when you're writing?
Susan Friedmann [00:05:52]:
That's fascinating. And please, if you do that, make sure that you send it because we can read it over the air. It would be wonderful. It would be such an honour. Yeah, I mean, again, the inspiration comes from an experience. It comes from, I think for me, it's been more of the experience.
Viral Gor [00:06:13]:
Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:06:13]:
Because sharing that and hoping that either a success or, you know, something that didn't quite go the way it was planned is still a learning, not only for me, but for others that can learn from this too. Which, in terms of storytelling, I mean, that's the beauty. I mean, it isn't all fairies and princesses.
Viral Gor [00:06:38]:
Right, right. You
Susan Friedmann [00:06:38]:
know, Once Upon a Time and everything was hunky dory, which is a great segue into this whole idea of storytelling. I mean, because you are telling the story. Now Absolutely. How do you make that story powerful? And you said close your eyes and just listen Yeah. To the words. But how can a nonfiction author like myself be able to add the impact and make a story powerful, and yet we're doing it in many more words than your talent being able to do in so few words?
Viral Gor [00:07:20]:
Yeah. That's a great question. So for me, it's authenticity and relatability. The overlying theme for poetry is motion, my body and soul, is relatability. At some point in your life or the lives of those that you know have gone through what I'm talking about in this book or have experienced it in some way, shape, or fashion. For me, being authentic in what I'm trying to portray and making sure I have the conscious mind that I want someone to be able to relate to the piece I'm trying to share. I want some emotional connection. I want the emotional intensity to some degree.
Viral Gor [00:07:59]:
I want them to gain some insight and perspective into what I'm saying because you may not agree with the perspectives I paint, but if it opens up the dialogue to the conversation, then that's half my job. Right? And so I think having that in mind along with the artistic expression, just being able to be free enough to use language, rhythm, and metaphors to articulate poetry is why I do it. And and I really want to be able to ensure that when people read, watch, or listen to my poems is that they understand that they can feel the authenticity. They can feel the relatability, and most importantly, they can feel the emotion. And that's hopefully what's gonna get them into their own mind, to their own psyche, into their own life, and kinda pull things apart and just reflect on where they went right, where they went wrong, what they could do different. Not to say in a overthinking fashion, but just in a way of if you wanna be a better version of yourself and just get 1% better, then you have to kinda do these things, and it starts with reflection. And that's kinda what I started with when I started poetry.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:10]:
The reflection. Do you have a process where you map this out? I mean, is this strategic in terms of how you do it? Is there, you know, like a pattern for, you know, you starting with the reflection Yeah. Then what?
Viral Gor [00:09:26]:
Yeah. I think if you look from a structure standpoint, I don't really have one. I just again, I let it free flow. But when I do sit down right, I definitely start with well, first of all, what's the subject? What am I trying to portray? What am I trying to showcase in this piece and why? I always wanna go to what's the point. Why am I doing this? And that's where I start. And then it's just building blocks from there. It's like Lego. Right? You have the first piece and you just add on.
Viral Gor [00:09:51]:
And sometimes and if you remember when you were younger or a child playing with Legos, sometimes you didn't know what you're building. You were just going with the flow and building as you go and moving pieces from here and there. And sometimes you made a mistake and you move that piece around. And that's similar to how I put together my art.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:09]:
Yeah. It's like the muse. I mean, it's like something comes to you and you write. And I've read stuff that I've written, and I was like, I don't even remember writing.
Viral Gor [00:10:20]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I could have said it better myself, but there's times when I reread some of my old pieces. I'm like, oh, who wrote this? I don't remember being in this headspace or having this creative outlet to write things the way I do. So it's fun, though, in that way because it shows your growth and your evolution. Right?
Susan Friedmann [00:10:37]:
Yeah. I mean, that always fascinates me when that happens. You know, that the muse comes in when you least expect it to.
Viral Gor [00:10:45]:
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. There's been times when, you know, I get an idea, and I can write, you know, 3 poems all in in a span of 5, 10 minutes. But then there's other pieces that take me months or weeks because I'll start, and I don't know where to go. I don't know how to end it, or I I don't wanna let it linger too long. I wanna give it a good conclusion, but enough space for the reader, the watcher, or listener to take it away and and let it relate to them. And it's a fine line.
Viral Gor [00:11:12]:
Right? Because you're an author. So you know you can put more description in this piece of paper and on this page, but then you also think, well, is that too much description? Am I taking away from the story? And is the reader gonna get bored, or are they gonna, you know, have ADD and do something else? So that's always something to think about in the back of my mind.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:30]:
Oh, especially these days because Absolutely. You know, people's attention span is like a flea.
Viral Gor [00:11:36]:
Yep. Absolutely. It's here
Susan Friedmann [00:11:38]:
and here and now and gone in a second. So Exactly. How about blending factual information with this storytelling to keep the attention Yeah. Especially both your speaker and a writer. How do you do that? So many authors have factual information
Viral Gor [00:12:01]:
that
Susan Friedmann [00:12:01]:
they want to convey, but yet you wanna make it interesting.
Viral Gor [00:12:05]:
Yeah. For me, and that's a great question, I speak from a place of authenticity, which means I speak about my experiences, which for me are the facts. Right? Because it's what I've experienced, what I've addressed, what I've gone through or witnessing other people's experiences through our conversations and common threads and having an impact on narrative. I think it's important that when you're thinking about a story, you want to have a good blend of artistic integrity and facts. Because, again, the reader, the watcher, the listener is going to listen with intent, and they're trying to gain something out of it. So you wanna empower them. You wanna inspire them, but you also wanna engage with them. And what do you do when you engage with someone? You you give them facts that they can say, oh, yeah.
Viral Gor [00:12:51]:
I remember that or that that makes sense. Yeah. I can relate to this. So, yeah, I've gone through something similar because, again, you're being as authentic as possible. Now you don't wanna put someone's personal business out there. Right? So I think, again, it's a fine line of, how much of the facts do you wanna present. And, for me in poetry, I wanna do it in a way where it's entertaining. It's fun.
Viral Gor [00:13:13]:
It creates a dialogue. So what I do is I try to get feedback. And when I get feedback, I try to put that in the back of my mind that I wanna foster this collective sense of belonging and support through storytelling with facts, but also metaphors that are fun and that you think you take it away and you're like, oh, never thought about it that way. That's interesting. Let me look into it more.
Susan Friedmann [00:13:35]:
I think that's another thing that poets are brilliant at, and that is metaphors. Mhmm.
Viral Gor [00:13:39]:
You
Susan Friedmann [00:13:40]:
know, being able to use a metaphor to convey what you want to convey. How do you come up with these metaphors? Is there a way that you again, a technique?
Viral Gor [00:13:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's good. I don't have a structure in mind. It just kinda comes to you. You know, when you're almost like you're painting a picture. Right? Sometimes you're painting, and you don't even know where the brush stroke goes, and you just let it free flow in your mind, and it kind of has a life of its own. And that's how poetry is written from my standpoint.
Viral Gor [00:14:11]:
Sometimes when you hone in on your craft, you can kinda do it with your eyes closed, and so the metaphor sometimes just spill out. But other times, I have a poem called planted, and it's about individuals who are trying to plant themselves in their vision and having, you know, a bright future. But I used the metaphor of a rose and the thorns as a way to illustrate life and the things you're gonna go through. And, you know, I'm planting your seed in the soil and and watering it and using the sun to get some energy because you can always relate things like that to your actual life if, again, you read between the lines. And that's why my tagline is don't just listen to the lines, read between them.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:55]:
Yes. Planting, soils, flowers, you know, blooming.
Viral Gor [00:14:59]:
I mean,
Susan Friedmann [00:15:00]:
I love to use the bamboo metaphor that, you know, you plant the seeds
Viral Gor [00:15:05]:
that Right. Right. You
Susan Friedmann [00:15:05]:
know, it can take up to 7 years before you see anything come from that soil. And for patience, because we're very impatient, I think.
Viral Gor [00:15:16]:
Very very patient.
Susan Friedmann [00:15:18]:
We want success immediately. Yeah.
Viral Gor [00:15:21]:
Right away. And if you don't see it right away, you think of it yourself like, oh, I I'm a failure. I didn't achieve anything when the reality is, like you said, it requires patience. Right? When you wanna grow a flower in your garden, you don't stop watering it for a week or 2 weeks or 3 weeks and expect it to thrive. You're actually depriving it of what it needs to live and so you can take that metaphor for your life and what are you absorbing on a day to day basis to help you thrive and grow and achieve that success that you're looking for? Or are you just thinking you want that but not putting in the quote unquote work to get there. Right?
Susan Friedmann [00:15:55]:
Yeah. What about some common pitfalls that writers should avoid to maintain this impact of story? What if you see these Yeah. Mistakes, pitfalls, whatever you want to call them?
Viral Gor [00:16:11]:
Yeah. From a poetry standpoint, and I used to do this too, I used to think that every word or other word or every line had to rhyme with the previous one. And then later on, I evolved, and I learned that it wasn't important about the rhyming, more so it was about the message and delivering it in a way where it's enticing and it makes you wanna continue to read. The book purposely is only 1 poem per page because I didn't want to overwhelm the audience. For me, I wanted to make sure that it was digestible, it was short enough where you are not gonna lose your attention, but I also didn't have to have the same flow and cadence in every single piece. I didn't want it to be you're reading it or you're watching or listening, and it sounds like the rest of them. For me, I think that happens a lot in the poetry of that I've been a part of was that people think they have to rhyme in every word or that they almost sound monotone to a certain degree. Right? And when you're delivering any speech, whether it's at a conference, at a show, even at a book reading, you have to have some inflections in your voice and you have to show the audience why they should be excited about a certain piece or a certain page or a certain paragraph or a scripture.
Viral Gor [00:17:25]:
Right? You have to show and tell versus just expecting them to know. Right? Expectations can be a fickle thing. When you are writing, whether it's a book or a story or a poem, it's important to remember what you're doing, why you're doing it, and that try to be as authentic as you can be for the reader, not yourself. And I think that's a big one. You know, I used to write poetry for myself until I realized that I'm not sharing this with only myself. I'm sharing this with the world. When they read it, how are they gonna portray it? How are they gonna reflect on it? Because it can't always be about I, I, I, or me, me, me. It has to be about you.
Viral Gor [00:18:05]:
That was one of the pitfalls I learned early on is that, you know, I have to change the way I write my poetry so that the reader feels like it's about them and not the author fires the poet.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:17]:
Yeah. And the word you is one of the 10 most powerful words in the English language. Right. Exactly. Yeah. You touched on a couple of things. The first is that for me, thinking about poetry, I always thought it's gotta rhyme, and I think that's one of the things that put me off. I'm like, I don't know.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:38]:
Yeah. How do I make this rhyme? And it put too much pressure on it. So Right. I was like, I love the fact that you thought that as well. So
Viral Gor [00:18:46]:
Absolutely.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:47]:
Wasn't the only one. So that makes me a whole lot a lot better.
Viral Gor [00:18:51]:
Absolutely. And, you know, I I get a lot of those comments all the time when I talk to people, and they're like, oh, you're a poet? No. I don't know anything about poetry. I don't understand it. I find that so funny because I think when George people can find interest and relatability in it, it's just that it's not a everyday common art that you come across or unless you're an avid poetry reader or listener. And so when you talk to people on a that they're living their life day to day and you share that with them, their first thought is exactly that. Oh, I I you know, I'm thinking it always has to rhyme and maybe that's not my vehicle of choice. Then I ask them the question.
Viral Gor [00:19:26]:
I say, okay. Well, what are you into? What's your topic or subjects that you like? They'll list off a few, and I'll say, okay. Well, that's in my book. Well, I have stuff about life. I have stuff about reflection. I have stuff about love. I have stuff about struggles in your life. And so they're like, oh, okay.
Viral Gor [00:19:41]:
And I said, yeah. Not all of them have to rhyme. At the end of the day, it's about a message that I'm trying to invoke in your mind and give you insight and try to provoke thought so that you can be better. Right? So I talk about family, relationships, like I said, self reflection, motivation, and experiences because at the end of the day, this is what makes us human, and we're all having similar human experiences.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:07]:
We really are.
Viral Gor [00:20:08]:
Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:09]:
Yes. Our experiences are unique to us, but it doesn't mean that somebody else hasn't had a similar experience.
Viral Gor [00:20:19]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember doing a show, and one of the pieces, I think, was about abortion. And it was about the male's perspective in an abortion. And it's a very obviously controversial subject, especially from a male's point of view. But then after I was done the performance, I got off stage, and a guy came up to me and said, wow. I didn't realize that someone else had similar thoughts to what I thought, and, you know, I caught the virus. And so you never know what other people have experienced.
Viral Gor [00:20:51]:
Right? Because you're not in their lives. You're in your own. When you're in your own world, it's like going through depression. In your world, when you're depressed, you think you're the only one depressed, and you're having the worst time in the world, and no one else can relate to you because they have no idea. But, you know, you go maybe down the street or to the mall, and there's probably a dozen or so people that have experienced depression in one way, safer fashion that you don't even know because, 1, you're not having those conversations. And 2, really, it's none of your business. But also, it's the feeling of I'm not alone. And that's at the end of the day, at the crust of it, I think that's for me what drove me to worst poetry is that I want to make people feel that they're not alone in what they're going through because I also know people that have gone through things that I've gone through and I didn't realize until they told me.
Viral Gor [00:21:38]:
And so, you know, I think that helps a lot.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:40]:
And something else, a gift that you're giving people, is you're giving them permission to talk about certain subjects, which could be very taboo in many societies. So Sure. Being able to help people do this, I think, is a real gift that you're giving them. Wonderful. I appreciate that. And something else that you said that I picked up on that I talk about a lot, and that is passion. You know, you talked about emphasizing and how you talk about things and the cadence and the pitch and everything that's involved. But at the end of the day, you've got to feel passionate about your work, whether it's a poem, whether it's a story, it's a book, it's whatever it is.
Susan Friedmann [00:22:24]:
Because if you're not passionate about it, why should somebody else be?
Viral Gor [00:22:28]:
Right. That's a great point. Funny thing about passion, I used to get that all the time too when I was younger, and I would ask someone older than me or someone that's in a position that I would wanna be in. I said, what should I do? How should I get there? And they would always tell me, oh, follow your passion. And I hated that because I was like, what does that even mean? Follow your passion. Now that I have the opportunity to speak on it, I think for me, passion is something you would do if money didn't exist. Something that you enjoy doing regardless if you make money out of it or not. People love to walk their dog.
Viral Gor [00:23:03]:
That's what they're passionate about. They wanna go out, go into nature, spend time with their dog, and enjoy the sights and sounds with their companion. And that's what they're passionate about. So for me, I think that's really important is to find your passion, but what that really means is find something that you love doing whether you get paid for it or not and will still continue to do because it's something that's gonna help you mentally, emotionally, physically, whatever have you. Just something that you love doing.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:32]:
Mhmm. And that's a wonderful segue into, Viral, you telling us more about how our listeners can find out more about your work, you. What would you like to share with them?
Viral Gor [00:23:44]:
Absolutely. So my book is called Poetry is Motion, Mind, Body, and Soul. You can buy all major booksellers, and you can request it if it's on the shelves. The best place to get it is Amazon in all major countries. You can get it at whatever, amazon.ca.com.uk. And you can follow me on at Virustapoet on all social media platforms as well as virusthepoet.com, which is my website. And if you're still not sold on buying the book, go to the website. There are over a 100 pieces that you can just click on and read.
Viral Gor [00:24:17]:
See if you like it. And if you like it, go to Amazon or go to your nearest bookstore and pick up a copy of the book. You will not regret it. You can gift it to someone, a friend, a family, a companion. And at the end of the day, poetry is one of those things where it took me a long time to write, so I don't expect someone to open the book and read it right away and get through the 100 pages. It's one of those things where you take a piece, you read it, you soak it in, and you just let it marinate for a while. At the end of the day, I want it to be for you and how you're gonna take it in your life. And so I'll leave it at that.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:51]:
Oh, it's beautiful. I mean, I'm gonna put you on the spot if you allow me. Is there a a short poem that you'd be able to share with us?
Viral Gor [00:25:00]:
Absolutely. This one's, more thought provoking. It's called Socialcast. Let me know when you're ready.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:08]:
I'm ready.
Viral Gor [00:25:10]:
How are we also connected yet disconnected more than ever before? We have all been affected whether you are conscious or not. This has gone above, beyond the top, the emotionless net. Yet, we are always praying, trying to see what others are doing. Unfortunately, all they're consuming are the social platforms that reveal the best of life, missing the realism of most lives. Stay woke as those conversations arise, Iris Thapone.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:42]:
Wow. That is so applicable to today's environment. Absolutely. I would appreciate it if you could send that so that I could put that in the show notes and make sure that we get it correct.
Viral Gor [00:25:54]:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:55]:
That would be lovely.
Viral Gor [00:25:56]:
That's not a problem.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:58]:
As you know, we always end with our guests sharing a golden nugget, their words of wisdom that they'd like to leave our listeners. What are yours?
Viral Gor [00:26:08]:
I think for me, it's find your most authentic self. A lot of times we go through life trying to find out how we're gonna people please and how we're gonna get through life by making others like us in a certain way. At the end of the day, I want you to walk away with this. Find your most authentic self. Start falling in love with yourself. Be your own best friend. Be your number one cheerleader. Be that person for yourself when you're down in the depths that you can talk to yourself and get yourself out of it.
Viral Gor [00:26:39]:
Not because you need to, but because you have to. Because sometimes, a lot of times, you're gonna go through things that only you will feel. Even if you have a significant other, you're feeling a certain emotion or you're feeling a type of way about something that happened to you. You're the one that's gonna have to deal with it internally. And so I think my message is to be self reliant and resilient, and I think that will go a long way.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:04]:
Mhmm. Very much so. Because if we can't do it for ourselves, we can't rely on others to be there to do it for us.
Viral Gor [00:27:11]:
So Exactly. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:12]:
We have to be able to do it for ourselves. And I always say it's like one of those blow up bouncy dolls that you can push down and it will bounce back up again. And Right. And that's how you have to be because you are going to get knocked down. Absolutely. It doesn't mean you have to stay there.
Viral Gor [00:27:30]:
Yeah. And don't beat yourself up if it takes you longer than you even would like. Right? Sometimes you go through things and it keeps you down for a couple weeks, sometimes couple months, sometimes couple years. Ultimately, it's like anything. You get up, once you get knocked down, brush off your shoulders and keep trying. Because ultimately in life, who is ever gonna knock you for trying anything? You know? And that's the number one thing, is to try. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:52]:
Yes. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. This has been amazing, very touching. And just as you said, that authenticity, that feeling, I think that really came out in everything that you shared with us. So really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Viral Gor [00:28:10]:
Thank you.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:11]:
And listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money and energy, and it's time you got the return that you were hoping for. Go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com
to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
