Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest is David Doerrier. David is a professional speaker, trainer, and coach with over 30 years of experience helping people communicate more effectively, Known for his captivating style and expertise in adult learning theory, he's a master at simplifying complex concepts and delivering actionable insights that help people improve their presentation skills. David is a sought after speaker at industry conferences, corporate events, and educational institutions.
David, welcome to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
David Doerrier [00:00:56]:
Oh, thank you so much, Susan. I've been looking forward to this for several weeks, and I'm so excited to be a part of your podcast.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:03]:
Well, that's sweet. It's good to have you. And, David, I know that you provide practical advice for presenters who want to improve their skills, not only live on stage, but also virtually. And I would really would like to focus on that virtual component. Now, obviously, since COVID, speakers, you know, their life changed from one minute to the next. And going virtual has been such a godsend for so many speakers. Let's focus on that, if that's okay with you.
David Doerrier [00:01:39]:
That's perfect.
Susan Friedmann [00:01:41]:
Thinking about that, let's look at how do we even get started? What do we have to do to prepare for a virtual presentation?
David Doerrier [00:01:52]:
That's a great question. I think that there are many similarities between presenting on a stage and presenting virtually, which also would be many of the things that you would have to prepare to be in person and would be similar to virtual. So understanding who your audience is. What are the pain points? What are you gonna be speaking about? What are your objectives? What ways are you going to engage your audience? These are basic foundational things that would be a part of all types of presentations, creating your visuals, asking questions of your audience, and then now looking at what are the differences between in person and virtual. And one of the differences, you can use some of these electronic tools to engage your audience. Will you use a poll? Will you use the whiteboard? So it's a lot of thinking about, first, what are we going to talk about and who are we going to be talking to, and then structuring the presentation in a way there's a lot of components here when it comes to the structuring. So I'm gonna just leave it at this point is that a lot of the stuff up front is very similar to be in person.
Susan Friedmann [00:03:00]:
Well, I think one of the toughest things, David, is for presenters to learn how to engage the audience in a virtual environment. Having done live on stage and this virtual, it's very different in terms of that engagement. Let's talk about some tips and tricks about how to keep people engaged.
David Doerrier [00:03:24]:
Sure. There's the $1,000,000 question. You can't feel your audience. The audience is distracted. The audience is looking away. They don't have their camera on. I ask a question, and nobody's responding. Yes.
David Doerrier [00:03:36]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes. There is a slightly different approach to first, there would have to be a difference in mindset that it's, well, kind of cranking everything up to an 11, where there needs to be that fine line between just enough engagement and not enough not any engagement. I think with a virtual audience, more so is asking those questions, telling the stories, using rhetorical questions, getting your audience to respond in some way.
David Doerrier [00:04:11]:
These would be all of the objectives. However, the only way that that's going to happen is by setting the stage up front. I think this is an area again, whether you're in person or whether you're virtual, one of the things that's so important is set the stage. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? How are we gonna do it? And when we get to the end of this journey, what value is this going to have to you? What I'm trying to do with that opening is I want my audience to take ownership. I want them to say yes versus just diving straight into the content, then you're doomed because your audience is not connected to you. You gotta get them connected right up front.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:51]:
And some tricks to be able to do that.
David Doerrier [00:04:54]:
Great question. One of the tricks is to ask questions. Would be how many people here have ever had a fear of speaking in public? Who here is speaking professionally? I'm physically now raising my hand, which you can't see, but by me raising my hand, that gives to the audience that that's how they should respond by me just asking that question. So asking questions upfront, Having a statistic of some sort that just everybody oh, I don't wow. That's something. I'm not avoiding the question, but there are 9 gazillion ways of opening, but they all have the same objective. And that is to immediately get your audience's attention, get them to lean in, asking questions, a statistic, some sort of an image that's in your PowerPoint that everybody just can't look away from. That's my short answer there.
David Doerrier [00:05:44]:
Mhmm.
Susan Friedmann [00:05:45]:
And it's a great segue into talking about visuals because visuals in this environment are critical because they don't want to look at a speaking head the whole time, which often you do on a stage. You use visuals very differently on a stage than you do virtually. So let's talk about that component of the visuals.
David Doerrier [00:06:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. For me, yes. The visuals are extremely important that there are 3 types of I'll use the term learner or 3 types of people who observe. I guess another way of saying that would be you have the visual, you have the auditory, and then you have the kinesthetic where they need to have some sort of a feeling. And we as facilitators, as speakers, we have to try to incorporate all of those. We have to have components that are visual. We need for those visual learners and also that auditory, for those auditory learners, and then the emotional part, bringing in those kinesthetics.
David Doerrier [00:06:42]:
So the visual is a great way to reinforce. The PowerPoint there's a right way and a wrong way of using PowerPoint, and many people have heard the death by PowerPoint. But just having 1 or 2 words, having an image instead of having words on the screen, that, in many cases, can be more memorable than words on a screen.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:03]:
Very much so. And, I mean, I think we've all experienced death by PowerPoint.
David Doerrier [00:07:08]:
Yeah. You
Susan Friedmann [00:07:08]:
know, when you've got every single word that the presenter is saying and then they're reading the slide and it's in 12 point font, you know. Right.
David Doerrier [00:07:20]:
Terrible. Exactly.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:21]:
Yes. Enough to distract you and push you into multitasking and
David Doerrier [00:07:27]:
Exactly. Yep. That's not a speaker that would be very engaging.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:31]:
That's right. And, of course, obviously, on stage, it's very different, but you still don't want to have too many words. Is there a rule about the number of words that are good if you're going to include text?
David Doerrier [00:07:46]:
I have heard anywhere from 3 to 4 bullet points per slide with 3 to 4 words max per slide or per bullet.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:55]:
Yes. And then, as you said, pictures paint a 1,000 words. It's far more dramatic and memorable when you have that image, and especially when it speaks to the emotional, the kinesthetic side of our learning, which I know we have all 3. But as you said, we all have one that's dominant. That's key. And along the way then, yes, you have this engaging the audience right at the beginning, asking them some questions. However, along the way, what are you doing to keep them engaged? Let's say you've got a 60 minute presentation or even a 90 minute presentation.
David Doerrier [00:08:39]:
Great question. So there are several things that come to mind. One would be that every 5 to 7 minutes, maybe in virtual, maybe even 3 to 5 minutes, you should mix up the way that you're presenting. A couple of examples would be asking a question, getting people to respond in the chat, using a poll, maybe the whiteboard of some sort, telling a story, using a video, different images as well of directing people's eyes to certain things on an image, for example. These are just some examples of mixing it up. Great question because, yes, you can have a great opening. You can get everybody's attention, and then it just falls flat. So it's one of those things that has to be sustained all the way to the very end.
David Doerrier [00:09:25]:
So one way to do that would be to mix it up, how you're presenting. Another way would be incorporating reviews or transitions. In many cases, depending on what people are presenting, it could be new information to the audience. The audience, they know nothing about this, whatever it is, and now you're educating them about it about this service or product or whatever it is. And we're hearing all this for the first time. The person who's presenting is an expert in this. Having to understand who your audience is and what their current level of understanding is, then giving it these kind of small chunks, finding transitions. So now that we've talked about how to know who your audience is, now let's talk about how to incorporate stories.
David Doerrier [00:10:10]:
That would be another way to keep them with you, and you're not overloading your audience with too much information too quickly.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:17]:
Yes. Because, again, stories almost have the very similar effect, especially emotionally, to that big image feeding into the emotion. And people love stories. I mean, we've grown up with stories since we were babies, you know. We had stories read to us or told to us. And as adults, I don't think we've outgrown stories.
David Doerrier [00:10:39]:
Well, stories sell data oh, I forget what it is, but I know stories sell. That's for sure.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:46]:
Let's remember that part of it.
David Doerrier [00:10:49]:
Yes. Because now, if you're able to get your audience to emotionally connect let's talk about that business owner that is at a networking event and talking about, Have you ever experienced this problem? Have you ever looked for this? And if I wanna get my audience to feel that pain, and then, well, I've got the solution. So I want my audience to feel things. That's what they're gonna remember, are the feelings.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:13]:
Very much so. Yeah. Because that sticks with you. And data, yeah, it's great. But like when we studied at college or at school, we studied for an exam, and then we forgot the rest.
David Doerrier [00:11:26]:
Right. Exactly.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:27]:
Yes. Keeping them engaged. The other thing that's different, obviously, virtually, you're looking into a camera. And you've got all these faces looking at you, honestly, have their camera off, but they've got all these people staring at you. How do you get over some of these feelings of being, well, I don't know. There's sort of awkwardness about looking into that camera and speaking and being natural. Are there any techniques that you work with your clients on that?
David Doerrier [00:11:58]:
Yes. Definitely. It's first understanding the importance of looking into that camera. When I am looking into that camera, in many cases, I can't see my audience. I have a camera that is, where I can adjust it. So it comes down into the middle or so of the monitor. So I can see some of the faces. But what you wanna understand is that when it comes to communication, like if we were in in a live setting, it would be natural for the presenter to be scanning the audience, to look at the audience.
David Doerrier [00:12:30]:
Here, I need to look at my audience in a very different way, and that is to look directly into that camera. Now there's a caveat to that. You don't have to look into the camera the entire 100% of the time, again, depending on how you're presenting. I'm looking directly into the camera right now, and we're not even on camera. And I just have a habit of doing that. Because it's understanding what is that impact on the receiver's end. That if you're gonna be selling a product or if you're trying to develop know, like, and trust with your audience and you're not looking at them, you're talking to another screen, you're talking down, you're talking over here, you're talking up to the ceiling, that, to me, doesn't develop that credibility. Eye contact develops that credibility.
David Doerrier [00:13:15]:
Now, again, not 100% of the times, definitely, at minimum, would be your opening, your conclusion. If you're telling stories, if you're going through a transition where you don't have to look at notes, then you're looking directly into the camera, asking questions, answering questions at minimum.
Susan Friedmann [00:13:33]:
Yeah. That's so key. And, I mean, since we've been on virtual for how many years now, that seems like crazy, 4 plus years, that I've seen some incredibly good presentations and I've seen some incredibly awful presentations. And I'm sure you have too. Having those little tricks and tips that help us is very useful. What about mistakes, David? Our audience loves learning about mistakes. What are some of the common mistakes that you find presenters make?
David Doerrier [00:14:09]:
1 is not being prepared, not understanding who their audience is, going into this thinking that we all learn the same way that the presenter learns. So those would be at the core. The other would be is maybe not being as familiar as they need to be with the technology. Because there's another credibility issue if someone is searching, well, how do I turn it on mute? How do I take it off mute? I'm the facilitator, so I should be able to deliver some sort of expertise or credibility to my audience. So understanding the technology, understanding the audience, understanding the importance of how your audience learns and retains information would be I mean, there's a lot more, but those are some good ones. Mhmm.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:58]:
And how about your voice? I mean, our voice is so critical when it comes to speaking. Talk to us about voice and intonation and how important that is, and what are some of the tricks in that area.
David Doerrier [00:15:14]:
Well, the trick and the probably the biggest and best trick is to record yourself to get used to well, with Zoom, you have the opportunity to record yourself, and I would recommend recording yourself as much as possible. Yes. It does take some time to get used to listening to your voice, to watching yourself on camera, but there is no other better way to do it, or you can hire someone, I know a coach that can help you out with your video. Definitely recording would definitely be one way. I think that for many people, and I hear this all the time, I can't listen to my voice. Oh, I hate my voice and this and that. We are always gonna be most critical about our own voice and how we look on camera. We are gonna be 10 times more critical than anybody else.
David Doerrier [00:15:59]:
So I would say what you have to get used to listening to yourself. You have to get used to watching yourself. You have to do some good evaluations on yourself, and just keep working on that voice.
Susan Friedmann [00:16:12]:
Yeah. It's interesting because I remember all of those things. Yes. I still am more critical about how I look on camera. The voiceI know that I speak slower than most Americans, you know, for our American listeners. But I'm British. We don't speak as fast.
David Doerrier [00:16:30]:
Right. But
Susan Friedmann [00:16:31]:
I enunciate really well, and I know that. I mean, I've done voice over work, and that's something that I've gotten used to. And because of the podcast too, listening to my own voice, which in the beginning was like so painful.
David Doerrier [00:16:47]:
Sure. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:16:48]:
I remember those days. Yes.
David Doerrier [00:16:50]:
I've had an advantage. I did through my many journeys in my past. I did radio broadcasting for 12 years. I have my very first tape. So there was a lot of work that I had to do with getting used to listening to my voice, but I was in a career where I could practice on a daily basis.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:08]:
That's the best Yeah. When you can practice, practice, practice. And which is really, in speaking, that's what it's about. I mean, it's one of those professions that you can't just pick up a book and read it and be able to do it.
David Doerrier [00:17:23]:
That's right. Yeah. You
Susan Friedmann [00:17:24]:
can't do it. LS: It's all about practicing and just keep practicing. And that's the way you get better. Yeah.
David Doerrier [00:17:31]:
Yep, yep, exactly.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:33]:
So you had the fortune of being able to do it on radio. I love it. That's great. So this is perfect for you. How about some basic tools that we should be using, other than, of course, Zoom, which we're using? I don't know. I don't investigate many other platforms because I like Zoom. I'm happy with it. Even though is it perfect? No.
Susan Friedmann [00:17:59]:
But it's the best that, I've found. But what about other tools that you need or would be useful?
David Doerrier [00:18:07]:
I use exclusively Zoom. If I set up meetings, I exclusively use Zoom when other people, they've used Google and some other tools. One of the things to investigate is that there are many applications that you can add to Zoom that is going to help with engagement. I know that they are out there. I have not played with many of them. There's a button down at the bottom portion of the Zoom screen, and it says apps, and you can go through them. But they're all designed for some of them to collect data. Some of them are designed to help engage.
David Doerrier [00:18:43]:
So I would say that another thing would be to learn the capabilities of Zoom or whatever platform you're using. I know Zoom, for example, has a lot of free training that's on their website. So go through that free training if you need it.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:58]:
Now you mentioned a camera that you adjust on your screen. I'm not familiar with one of those. What's that one?
David Doerrier [00:19:05]:
This one that I have is called CenterCam. I'm in no way, shape, or form associated with them, but I have suggested this camera to many people where you can adjust it. It's very thin, and it's a very good camera. I've had a more expensive camera at one point, but that one required to have much more light in this room. This one is called Center cam, and you can adjust it whatever height you would like on your monitor. It clips to the top of your monitor. So this way now that when I'm looking directly into the camera, I'm not looking up to the top of my screen, but I'm also looking more straightforward at the group.
Susan Friedmann [00:19:42]:
Interesting. I have to check that out. Yeah. How about, obviously, the quality of the microphone? I don't like using the internal microphone, for instance, in my computer. And I know straight away if some of my guests are using it and, if possible, don't have that because it really doesn't give you the best quality. What do you recommend there?
David Doerrier [00:20:03]:
There are many different ways of displaying credibility to your audience. Having a good camera is one of them. Having a room that doesn't have a lot of echo, having a good background, for example, and also having a good microphone where your audience is able to hear you. This is another suggestion on why to record yourself or at least just to test because I'm sure we've all heard that one person that's in that networking group that has man. Does he even understand how bad he sounds? But you don't. You don't realize it because we can't hear ourselves. So definitely record yourself, see what the camera looks like, how good the camera is, and also the microphone. I use a microphone that's a USB connect.
David Doerrier [00:20:44]:
Because I also do voice over, I needed a microphone that I could use for voice over, and I could kinda swing in and swing out. But they're not all that expensive. I think this is about $80, and you just gotta get used to working with a microphone. That's another one of those credibility things.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:01]:
Which one are you using?
David Doerrier [00:21:02]:
I use a a microphone called Samson, s a, m as in Mike, s o n, Samson USB Connect. If you just Google Samson USB Connect, I'm sure the microphone will come up, and it's the actual model is c zero one, u as in uniform. C01u.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:24]:
Fabulous. Thank you. You mentioned background, and especially virtually. That is so critical. And I know that Zoom has these fun backgrounds. The only problem with them is that if you don't have a green screen behind you, then you disappear into the background when you show something, when your arm moves, all of a sudden, you've got the arm and then you don't because it's hidden by the background. Right. Talk to us about backgrounds.
David Doerrier [00:21:55]:
When it comes to virtual backgrounds, only if you've got that green screen, like you said, only if you're able to pull it off and it looks good and you got the right lighting. That would be the only occasion where I would say to go ahead and use it. I think the natural background not to think. I know. The natural background is the best. You don't run into all of those different distractions. That's another one of those distraction things, exactly what you said with, things fading in, arms fading in, heads in and out. Another thing is when these virtual backgrounds and somebody has their logo and their contact information, but it's blocked because it's I'm sitting here, and but behind me is all of that information, my logo, my company name, my phone number.
David Doerrier [00:22:39]:
But you can't see it because I'm in the way. So now that becomes another distraction as well. So if you're gonna have it, make sure that we can see what's written on there, and you've got a good green screen.
Susan Friedmann [00:22:51]:
You said the natural background, which yes. I mean, I've been using natural background because I've tried all sorts of things. And just because of how my room is laid out, it's really challenging to have, you know, anything hanging or so it's natural. But what about the clutter? Our offices often are cluttered. How much of that is a distraction?
David Doerrier [00:23:16]:
Everybody in your audience is going to perceive the speaker and their surroundings, and they're gonna perceive you differently. Yes. Picking up the clutter behind you, certainly recommended. I feel that the presenter should be more exciting than the background, needs to be more engaging than the background. I need to be doing enough that's gonna keep my audience in, keep them listening, engaged with me, leaning into me. It's not, yes, I've got to be conscious of my background. I've got a rather cluttered background behind me. And like you, I don't have a situation where I could really bring in a green screen because of the way this room is set up.
David Doerrier [00:23:57]:
Yes. Be conscious of your background. You wanna look professional, but you've gotta be more exciting than the background.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:04]:
Yeah. Because if the audience is focused on the background, they're not focused on you. Exactly. So, yes, you wanna change that order. This is all great information, David, and I know our listeners are chomping at the bit to find out how they can find out more about your brilliance and your expertise.
David Doerrier [00:24:23]:
Well, thanks, Susan, for that question. 2 good ways to find me. 1 is my website, PresentYourWaytoSuccess.com. Or, on LinkedIn, look up David Doerrier. If you find another one, let me know because it's a rather unique name. So I do post a lot on LinkedIn about different workshops that I have coming up as well as I give away a lot of tips on speaking both virtually and in person on LinkedIn.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:50]:
And I believe you have a free gift for our listeners.
David Doerrier [00:24:53]:
I do. I am going to have this will be a link that'll be down in the notes section, but this will be a free ebook that I wrote on some of the tips on being a good virtual presenter.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:07]:
Fabulous. And I did download that. And audience listeners, this is a great resource. Just a touch of the gems that David can teach you.
David, as you know, we always leave our listeners with a golden nugget, words of wisdom. What would you like to leave our listeners with?
David Doerrier [00:25:28]:
I'd like to leave your listeners with something that comes up a lot in my coaching, and that's the anxiety portion of speaking. Whether you're speaking virtually or speaking in front of people, have that anxiety. I have that anxiety. I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. I grew up as that pimply little kid and somehow ended up on a world stage, and I had to figure this whole thing out. What I wanna share is that when you're in front of that group speaking, look at your audience because everyone in that audience wants you to be successful. There's usually only one person in that room that feels that that presentation isn't going to work. Can you guess who that one person is? Exactly.
David Doerrier [00:26:11]:
The audience wants you to be successful. I'm not saying that's the cure to getting over the anxiety. There are other things. But just keep in mind that all of those faces looking at you, they are anxious to hear what it is you have to say.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:24]:
Yeah, they're on your side. They really are. They're your cheerleaders. And they do want you to be successful because at the end of the day, it's like, what's in it for them? That's what they're interested in. And, you know, you being successful is going to be helpful to them. So that's great words of wisdom and something we didn't even touch on. But I'm pleased that you brought it up because I think everybody has an element of stage fright in some way or another, or imposter syndrome in some way or another. Yes, I think that's something.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:55]:
David, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. This has been incredibly valuable listeners. Again, another episode you're going to have to relisten to because there are so many great tips and techniques that David has shared with us.
And by the way, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return that you were hoping for. Go to BookMarketingBrainstorm.com
to schedule your free call.
And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books.
Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
