Susan Friedmann [00:00:30]:

Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, Tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. 

 

Today, my special guest is Jennifer Dohr. Jennifer is a writer, award-winning educator, and the founder of Authentic Voice. She guides people to help themselves on the page and in their life by picking up a pen and writing the worst junk in all the world. Through workshops, retreats, and private sessions, Jennifer teaches her simple, but not easy process of assessing the subconscious to anyone ready to acknowledge and integrate their whole self, a newfound colleague. 

 

Jennifer, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:01:32]:

My goodness, Susan. It is such a pleasure to be here, and I'm so glad that we got connected just the other week, in fact.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:01:39]:

Yes. And we've got several people in common. We were just talking before about the fact that One of the podcasts that we did, I think, several months ago was with Leslie Berlient Who talked about your deep voice and you're going to talk about your authentic voice, I think there'll be a link to that podcast as well to Have people, you know, listen to both of them. So talking about authentic voice, I know you love sharing that. So Let's first understand what exactly you mean by the authentic voice.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:02:21]:

Absolutely. I'm so glad you asked that, and there's certainly a connection to Leslie Brilliant's concept of the deep voice. For me, the authentic voice is acknowledging and integrating the fullness of our lived experiences, the moments and memories, the experiences, Doubts, people, and places. And what we wanna do is integrate them first on the page and then into our lives, and that's the best way we can live from what I call our

 

Susan Friedmann [00:02:52]:

whole self. Something that you say here in the introduction Is writing the worst junk in all the world? I love that, by the way, because sometimes when you look at what you've written, you're like, This is ridiculous. This is awful. Yes. How do you relate that then to the authentic voice?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:03:14]:

Absolutely. So this phrase came up in 27 years as a high school English teacher. I would often ask my students to write something about their own lives, and they would say, well, I haven't lived long enough, and I'm only 18, and I don't have anything to say. And they would sort of write what they thought that They should say. And so one time, I grabbed a piece of paper and a pen, and I told one of my students to just head off to another room and go write the worst junk in all the world. And it was incredible what was able to come forth from her, and so that since then has become my moniker. It. What happens when we go to write, and I think we're all good writers.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:03:51]:

We've all grown up writing and using the written word. But what happens is that internal critic comes in and, oh My goodness. This isn't right, and this is terrible, and this will never be published. What we need to be willing to do is to write what needs to be written, right where we are, and understand that there really is no right. The subconscious is going to allow us to reveal the deep stories and experiences where our healthy authenticity resides, the key is to get out of our own way and let that happen.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:04:23]:

And I love that you say that because I know personally that that's been a challenge to write Authentically rather than write what you think people want to know, which I think was the excellent example that you gave to these high school kids Because you're right. That's exactly what they say. It's like, I haven't lived long enough to write anything worthwhile.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:04:50]:

Right. And then, of course, we become adults, and we're we're really not far from that 18-year-old self. Of course, we live longer and more experiences to process and integrate, but those fears are still there. And what happens when we aren't willing to write the worst junk in all the world, whether that's a manuscript or a brainstorm for a marketing plan is that what we're really doing is we're curating ourselves on the page. We're only presenting our Instagram self, And that's really unhealthy. That's what we call authenticity positivity bias, this bias to only show the world both on the page and in our lives, the parts of ourselves that we're most proud of, the shiny parts. When we really want to write and lead an authentic Life. What that means is getting away from the concept of a true or a real self and more toward the concept of a whole self, Really looking at all of the parts of the self, the shadow self, and integrating it all and saying, yes.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:05:46]:

I'm okay with all of it.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:05:48]:

All of ourselves. Talk to us more about writing about all of ourselves. What does that mean exactly?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:05:56]:

What that means is being willing to allow the pen to move freely, entering a subconscious state, and getting that conscious thinking brain A bit offline. Of course, it'll always be there in some regard, but really allow the pen to lead the way. So I might give My students in a workshop or in a retreat, a prompt from poetry or from a photograph or from a song lyric, whatever it may be any access point, and that's really the starting point. And then from there, we allow the pen to do the work. What that means is no cross-outs, No revisions. No worrying about anything you ever learned from any high school, college, or grad school teacher. Simply forward motion. And in fact, if you were in front of me, Susan, I would flick the back of your pen if I saw it stop moving.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:06:46]:

So what we're doing is we're staying in this place of allowing the subconscious to bring forth our past, not to stay mired in the past, but to Process those experiences. And once we've done that, we can bring them into the present and make decisions moving forward. So often when we do this type of writing, and it is a timed exercise, about 7 minutes, because staying in the subconscious more than that is really tough. But when we do that writing and we read the writing back to ourselves, So often we say, I don't remember writing that. I didn't know I felt that way. I didn't know I still carry that experience with me. It's really a process of discovery of the whole self.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:07:26]:

It's so funny that you say that because when I look back on Some of the books that I've written over the years, I read it as like, I have zero recollection of writing that. And then I say, this is quite good, but I don't remember even writing one part of that.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:07:47]:

Yes. Oh, that's fantastic, and you were in that flow that happens when we get out of that conscious critical mind.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:07:55]:

Yeah. And that's so easy to get into. I mean, I know for myself. I'm speaking for me because I judge what I write. I criticize what I write. And in fact, I'm my worst enemy when it comes to that. So being able to just, as you say, just write garbage, write junk. You had another phrase.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:08:20]:

What was it? The vomit draft, was that did I get that right?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:08:24]:

Yes. Absolutely. The vomit draft is your 1st draft of any piece of writing, and it's just for you, and it's often quite cathartic. It might be a piece that involves a lot of tears along the way. It's really for you to figure out what these seedlings of ideas are that want to come forth. And so in that vomit draft, you do wanna keep moving as fast as you can, forward motion, no editing onto the next idea. There is always time to shape Later, but there's never another opportunity to capture those first thoughts, and first thoughts carry tremendous energy.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:09:00]:

You've mentioned a couple of times, the pen. Now the difference between writing by hand and then typing on our computers, Help me with that. Does that make a difference? And if so, how and why?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:09:18]:

Absolutely. I'm so glad you asked So, of course, if anyone ever needs to write by a computer, that is totally fine, and you should do that if that is a requirement for you. But if possible, I encourage everyone to pick up a pen, and there's a lot of really terrific research on the kinesthetic connection between the head and the heart and the pen. And when you have that immediacy between what is pouring out of you, literally out of your hand through the ink and onto the page, There is a grounding and a centering and a sense of turning inward that is much harder to achieve In my experience and my experience with the thousands of students and adults I've taught, then when technology and a and a white screen and a clickety-clack of a keyboard is inserting itself.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:10:03]:

Mhmm. And I felt that having done both, but you're right. I think I can get a lot deeper If I'm handwriting something versus typing it on the computer. So talk about The authentic voice process as being therapeutic, because I find that when I've done it, it's been extraordinarily therapeutic. Is that something that everybody feels?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:10:32]:

Yes. In fact, I'd love to say that I'm not a therapist, but this writing sure can be therapeutic. What I find is that people come to me often feeling stuck, feeling as though they're somehow not enough, not good enough, or they're living a life on train tracks laid by others. And through the process of writing the worst junk in the world, they can take a look and say, this is what I'm carrying. This is what I believe. This is what I've externalized and make some decisions about whether that still serves them or makes clearer, more creative decisions moving forward about what they want their Professional or their personal life or both to look like. So it's really a cathartic therapeutic process. And often people will say to me, what if I'm afraid of what I'll see on the page?
And I always tell people that we only write what it is we're ready to see so people can let go of that worry.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:11:28]:

Yes. I know that you know, I know we've all had things happen within family, with friends. I had a particularly tough situation with a family member. I found that writing about it And then looking at this person who initially I thought was this terrible person, I was like, What lessons can I learn from her that will help me potentially in the future? And that was incredibly therapeutic. I was like, oh, yes. Coming from a different mindset, Even though there was a lot of anger, there was a lot of frustration, a lot of sadness, but then what were the lessons that I could learn from this?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:12:17]:

Absolutely. People say that they often feel fearless after doing this type of dream of conscious or subconscious writing, free, brave, and clear, and we can take those prompts. And we can, of course, write about our past, but we can always also write about our present feelings or, in your case, Susan, we can write about the future, right, how we want the relationship to be or what is a lesson I can learn and apply to the future.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:12:44]:

We started off that you have 5 steps to the authentic voice, and I know that that's something that's near and dear to your whole process. Let's dig into that. Obviously, we're limited in terms of our timing, so give us a taste Of what the 5 steps are of the authentic voice.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:13:07]:

Absolutely. I'll give you an overview of the Five steps, and then you can let me know if you'd love more on any of them. The first is to set yourself up with intention. The next is to still your mind. From there, we go into writing what needs to be written, writing the worst junk in all the world. The 4th step is to mind the gems or highlight the heightened feelings, And then the 5th step is to begin again from a gem from the 4th step.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:13:35]:

So I love that. The mining of the gems just pops out at me because I often refer to so many different people who I interview that They share incredible gems, and you're one of them. Talk to us about mining those gems. What does that mean, You know, in terms of our writing?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:13:56]:

Absolutely. So earlier, I said that first thoughts or first ideas carry tremendous Energy. And so when you are rereading the piece that you wrote in that 3rd step, and that's that timed 7 or 8-minute step, You will find moments of heightened extra energy on the page. You don't need to know what those moments reveal or why you're sensing some extra energy there. You simply take a highlighter and you allow your highlighter to mark them. They might be a couple of words or a phrase or Perhaps a full sentence, generally not more than a full sentence, and every piece of writing will have gems. It's sometimes it's hard for people new to the process to find them themselves. So I encourage you to share your writing with someone you trust, and they can help you mine those gems.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:14:41]:

You will have a feeling that there's more there there, and you'll have maybe 7 or 8 gems in a 7-minute piece of writing. They are always there. What you wanna do is don't judge them as either good or bad. You simply take one of them. Any one of them will work because they all come from you. Copy it exactly as written at the top of a new page. Quote it so you remember that your prompt has now derived from your own words and begin again from that gem. You might begin with those words and then just write, I don't know.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:15:11]:

I don't know, or maybe this or maybe that, and suddenly you're off and running. Suddenly, you're dropping in. And then that 5th step of beginning again, you're going deeper, and that's really where the magic happens.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:15:23]:

Yeah. I love that. And what that reminded me of Literally, I have an exercise that if I sit down and write, but I don't know what I want to write about, I just write that on the page. I just don't know what to write about. However, if I did know, what would it be? You know, I might repeat that until something stares me in the face. Maybe it's a bird on the bird feeder outside. And I was like, let me write about that. And I start writing about the bird, which then will take me on a journey to something else, you know, and a reminder of something else.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:05]:

So yes. And you just never know when I love it. Gonna kinda come up, these gems.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:16:11]:

Right. I just love that, and one of my favorite exercises is to list it out, I call it. So writing lists as fast as I can. Who doesn't love a good list? Right? And so one of my favorite lists is Things I will never write about. And, of course, the irony is inherent in that I am writing about them. I will never write about just lots and drugs, and then off I go, and I'm writing about it. And boy, are there some gems there.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:16:32]:

Just even thinking about writing junk, I mean, it's like, okay. Well, what is junk? Yes.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:16:40]:

I think that is going to be worked into the title of the book I'm trying to write about the authentic voice process. You know, write the worst junk in all the world, and My students used to dive bomb into the classroom and say, are we doing that thing today, mister Orwell? Were we break garbage? Can we do that again today? You know? They just loved it. And the reason I left education and started Authentic Voice a year and a half ago is because these tools are just so powerful. Of course, the hardest thing about them is remembering to use them, but if you're willing to pick up that pen, I just knew I had to bring these tools to adults.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:17:11]:

Well, I think they're so valuable. For instance, everyone you meet says, oh, I've got a book in me. I want to write a book. I've always thought about writing a book, But I'm not a writer. Therefore, this dream, this thought can't come to fruition.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:17:28]:

Right. And we know that that's the worst junk in all the world. Right? You're a writer if you write. And as I said, we haven't all Studied sculpture or ballet or drumming, but we've all utilized words before. And so if we can get out of our own way and write the worst Junk in all the world, you will be amazed at the insights you have. And we're at a place where the world really needs your story. Both our internal landscapes and our external landscapes in the world are quite challenging, and so I really wanna encourage your listeners to get out of their own way and just write Junk. If I could just get everyone in the world to pick up a pen and write junk, gosh, would we be in a better place?

 

Susan Friedmann [00:18:09]:

Just that phrase, I'm writing it down because it was like, yes. Get out of your own way. I mean, yes. I'm talking to myself. I know many times that Stop myself from doing stuff, whereas if I just did it. I think the more you think about it, then you start getting in your own way. But, you know, that good old Nike expression, just do it, is literally just do it as you say. Get it down.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:18:36]:

And isn't it ironic, Susan, that I called you about a week ago, and you said, well, how can I help you, Jennifer? And I said I think I just need you to repeat to me what it is I already know. And you laughed, You know because even people who do consider themselves writers get stuck and need a coach and need encouragement because it does feel vulnerable. You know, and everyone is telling us to just be real and just be true and be yourself, and I find that to be pretty awful advice, To be honest, it's because we don't have a true or a real self, but we do have a whole self, and that's really what we wanna access. And then from there, We're limitless.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:19:13]:

Something that you mentioned when you and I were having our little rerecording chat, and that was the imposter syndrome, which comes up over and over again. And I'm speaking for myself, and I know so many, You know, celebrities and just famous people, I mean, say the same thing. But how do you handle that with your students?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:19:42]:

I think the irony here is that, of course, if you Don't have imposter syndrome, that's problematic in the sense that you have imposter syndrome because you care so deeply. Right? You do want to make sure that you have the lived experience to share your knowledge and wisdom with the world. You do care that others don't find you, you know, Shooting from the hip and ill-prepared or whatnot. And so I think the first thing that I tell myself is whenever I feel nervous or scared or who am I to write this book or who am I to hold these retreats or teach, I ask myself, well, who am I not to? And by Withholding my life experience, who am I serving? And can I see that as perhaps narcissistic, you know, to withhold information from the world? So I try to turn Imposter syndrome on its head, and I say, look. It's a good thing. If I were truly an imposter, I wouldn't have imposter syndrome. I would just be too full of myself to consider that concept. So it comes from a place of caring deeply.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:20:45]:

It comes from a place of wanting to serve the world really well.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:20:49]:

It's such a nice way of looking at it. One of the things that I share with authors who are sort of teetering and they're almost finished, but somehow They just can't get to the finish line. And I've said, don't be so selfish. You're holding this information back from the world. This is great information. Let's share it.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:21:13]:

Yes. And I think that's such a better word than narcissistic. Right? It's selfish to with your gifts. And look. We've only got 1 shot at this. This is not a dress rehearsal from another time around. So understand. It is scary to put yourself out there, and we are concerned about, you know, what someone might say and what someone might think of us, but I try to say to myself, well, perhaps that person then is really hurting, and isn't what I have to share more important and than worrying about someone disliking me.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:21:47]:

Yeah. So criticizing. Even when somebody writes to me and says, oh, you had a spelling error or a grammatical error. And I was like, thank you because I don't see those myself. I love it when people share and help me improve because sometimes, I think we've all done it. We've hit the send button, and then you're like, OMG. What? Well, you just don't see it until somebody points it out. Right.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:22:17]:

And look, it's just feedback. You know, you get to decide what you want to do with it or feed-forward as I like to call it. So it's all helpful information.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:22:26]:

Yeah. I mean, as you said, are we gonna get it right the first time? No. And we're not expected to. I mean, Hemingway didn't sit down and just write the masterpiece. A piece, I mean, or any of the other famous authors out there, then multiple drafts. And I'm sure at some point when they say the end, it's like, is it really the end? Or if I was to read this all over again, would I rewrite it?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:22:53]:

I'm sure the number of novelists who refuse to open their work because of every comma they would like to change, you know, and We hear these stories of authors becoming depressed after their work comes out because they realize they can't tinker with it anymore, and now it's sort of set in stone. So I I think what's most important to remember is that we'll never get to any of those places unless we write garbage on the page

 

Susan Friedmann [00:23:15]:

to begin.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:23:16]:

I did wanna share, Susan, that that's why in my work, I never mix a discussion of craft with the process that I teach because Craft is going to clamp you down. I have so many people coming to me saying, I've taken so many writing workshops and writing academies, and I'm no closer to my manuscript than I was before. And I'll always ask, was there a discussion of craft? And they say, yes, of course. How do you attend a writing workshop without talking about craft? And I say That's what happened. You shut down in that moment, and, invariably, that's what happened. So, of course, there's a time and a place for craft, And yet it's not at the beginning.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:23:53]:

Yes. I think there's a whole extra discussion about that. This is brilliant. And I know that our listeners are chomping at the bit to know how they can find out more about Jennifer and her wisdom and her work at a show. So take it away.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:24:12]:

Oh my gosh. Thank you. The best way to reach me is through my website, which is www.authenticvoicenow.com. And you'll see at the bottom of the home page a place to sign up for my newsletter where you'll get tips and writing prompts delivered to your inbox about once a month. There's also a contact gen form there. I'd love to hear from you. If I can support you in any way, I'm there for you. There's a Calendly form to sign up for a complimentary 20 or 30-minute chat with me, although we invariably run over that, and I can talk with you about Whether a workshop or a retreat , or a 1-on-1 session with me might be a good step for you.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:24:51]:

Perfect. I love it. You also have an article that you talked about with your core steps, the 5 steps, and we're gonna put that in the show notes. Correct?

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:25:04]:

Terrific. Yes. That's a piece I wrote for Maria Shriver's Sunday paper, and they asked me to delineate the 5 steps with straight-ahead how-to language and no jargon and super accessible. So I hope you'll take a look at that, and you'll be reminded of what I went through quickly today on this podcast.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:25:22]:

Yeah. We really went through that quickly. But that's why they come to you, and they're going to read this article and find out more of your brilliance. That's wonderful. And, Jennifer, you know that we always end off asking our guests For a golden nugget, you've given us lots, and I'm gonna ask you for 1 more.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:25:46]:

Gosh. No pressure. I guess I would share that I believe turning inward is the next frontier or maybe the final frontier. I believe it really is the path to feeling less fearful, more brave, more free. And so anyone who tells you that turning inward is some sort of Naval gazing or that it's best to turn your focus outward, I want you to dismiss that voice, and I want you to realize that The gifts you have to bring forth will come from turning inward, meeting yourself on the page, and then bringing that self out into the world. So go ahead and turn inward. You will find the most incredible insights there that you never knew you believed or needed. So let that subconscious run, and I promise you, it's transformational.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:26:35]:

Oh, I feel it already. I just wanted to sit down and just write. You've inspired me. I was just like, okay. It's time to just write.

 

Jennifer Dohr [00:26:44]:

Terrific. I love it, Susan. Let it rip.

 

Susan Friedmann [00:26:47]:

I will, and thank you again for sharing so much of your great wisdom. Listeners, Check Jennifer out. Check out the article, and check out maybe her workshops. I think every one of us can benefit from what she has to offer. 

 

And listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways you can ramp up those sales because You've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to BrainstormWithSusan.com to schedule your free call. In the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas You can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.

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